BOXINGTALK'S DAILY BREAD
By Stephen Edwards

Bread, I learn something new from ALL of your MB’s!! Speaking on what Ray Robinson said to your GP, Ray was at ringside for one of Charley Burley’s fights in the mid to late 40’s scouting him and was asked when he would be fighting Burley, Ray’s response, “I’m too pretty to fight Charley Burley”! Ishe WON that fight against Guerrero plain and simple but like you said he doesn’t comport himself in a way that shows the judges WHO’S in charge, same with Kassim Ouma. This same thing happened to Ishe against Joel Julio and Sechew Powell, fights I scored in Smith’s favor. Ishe looked much better against Guerrero than he did against both Powell and Julio and IMO won 6 rounds to 4. Fighters who need to stay active to be successful, Berto, both Peterson Brothers and Paul Williams. Pavlik’s got problems, his aura of invincibility is gone at 160lbs and it will only get worse for him at 168 or 175lbs. Cloud and Glenn Johnson fight with a similar rhythm so it should be a good fight, Tavoris has a lot more skill than Johnson, but let’s not count Johnson out I thought he won the 1st fight against Chad Dawson and got ROBBED, in the end Cloud will win!! Only because of the ‘long count’ do I discredit Gene Tunney somewhat, Dempsey won that fight but had it taken away from him by the powers that be. Many current fight fans know nothing of the Cincinnati Cobra except that he was KO’d by Jersey Joe Walcott by an uppercut and also by Rocky Marciano, I think after moving up from middleweight Charles was BEST at 175lbs where he beat Archie more than once along with several other TOP 175lbers , but seeking bigger paydays the Cobra moved up to heavyweight. Margarito/Pacquiao won’t be the showcase that Top Rank thinks it will be because it will be under-promoted to begin with along Margarito’s reputation. Arum WINS by putting this fight on regular HBO, Pacman won’t make as much money but he will re-invigorate his fan base and BOXING and put “moneygate” behind him especially with a dominating performance. He takes a BIG RISK for less by doing this because Margarito could beat the ‘shit’ out of him on regular HBO.

Bread’s Response: What up Rob? We learn something from each other. You are one of my most knowledgeable contributors. Charley Burley was definitely on par with Sugar Ray Robinson. Burley was one of 10 welterweights named in hypothetical match ups against Floyd in a RING magazine. He was one of only four along with Robinson, Leonard and Hearns that were picked to beat Floyd. I know how good he was.  Just saw an excerpt on him on you tube, you have to check it out. It’s called ANAYLIZING GENIUS. After watching this , I hope the fans will understand why I usually favor the old school fighter 7 out of 10 times. It’s a must see. As for Robinson’s comments, from all of my research he probably did say that. But Rob ,not making excuses, I really believe that was respectful banter. Robinson was the kind of guy who had no problem talking about how good another fighter was. He was arrogant but he was not degrading. History and legend sometimes manipulates the truth. I’m not accusing you of this but many Floyd Supporters bring up Robinson not fighting Burley and Leonard not fighting Pryor to justify Mayweather’s behavior. I’m a fact finder. This is what they won’t say. Burley retired in 1950. A year before Ray Robinson fought for the middleweight title. Burley was also a middleweight when Robinson was basically a lightweight and junior welter. Nobody brings up that Robinson turned pro at 134 ½ lbs. Burley was considerably bigger for much of his career. Is it really fair to say Robinson is ducking a guy who was not even in his division and before he ever won the title?
 
Charley Burley said he could not blame Robinson for not fighting him. The fight was not for a title and there was no money in the fight. Burley was about to retire anyway. Tony Zale and Marcel Cerdan were guilty of ducking Burley , but I will say Ray missed him because the fight was just not viable.
 
People also like to say Robinson ducked the fighters from Black Murderer’s Row. More propaganda to uphold Floyd. The members include Bert Lytell who was way too big , he was basically a 175lber. Some put Holman Williams in there but he was middleweight that retired in 1948. Aaron “Tiger” Wade was another one but guess what , the Sugar Man did fight him and knocked him cold in the 3rd round. Jack Chase was another one who retired in 1948 and was too big. Lloyd Marshall was a light heavyweight and he retired in 1951. The year Ray won the middleweight title. Eddie Booker was the last member of note and he was also a big middleweight who retired in 1944, seven years before Ray won the middleweight title. You see how things can be twisted from the truth to make people believe certain things are acceptable. Is it really fair to say Robinson ducked Burley or any of those guys? I agree that Robbie could have made the fight. He was the A side. But duck is a strong word when neither guy was the champ in the division they were supposed to fight in.
 
Would anybody claim Oscar ducked Winky Wright in the 90’s? Wright was a bad ass at 154 but not champ yet. Oscar was at 147. I really don’t think so. Did Hagler duck Dwight Braxton? Or better yet did Hagler duck Rodrigo Valdes? You see if people have access to the internet it’s easy to pick a name from the same era as  and say,” see look, he could fight him.” I am analytical by nature. I never fall into herd theories. I always investigate.
 
One fan suggested to me that Leonard fight Pryor immediately after his war with Hearns. Leonard had one fight after Hearns against Bruce Finch then retired. Man o man, you see the standard these guys get held to, just because Floyd is refusing to fight Pac. For the exception of my idol Muhammad Ali, every fighter has missed someone in their era. There is a big difference between ducking and missing because the fight was not viable. Jack Dempsey ducked Harry Wills. Ray Robinson and Charley Burley was not viable, he missed him.
 
Floyd and Manny are both welterweights. They are the best fighters in the world and best of the millenium. This is also the biggest money fight of all time. Robinson nor Leonard was ever in this position and not make that kind of mega  fight. They would have both knocked Manny out and collected that 50 mill. Rob you know I’m telling the truth, although you may like Floyd. Floyd should be ashamed of himself for not representing in many ways. But oh well he does not care about legacy remember?
 
Ishe Smith has winner’s block like some have writer’s block. I predict that Berto and Williams will leave Al Haymon when their contracts run out. Cloud , I heard is having some emotional problems going into this fight. I hope it’s not true. I pick him to win also. He is very busy and athletic. I like him and I think he is a live dog against Dawson. Ezzard Charles was all that and a bag of chips. He was the best ever at 175 and he is very underrated historically. To show you guys how good he is, he would be the best fighter in the world p4p, if he was fighting today in his prime. Rob we agree about Margarito. I pick PacMan to win but I swear I got bubble guts for this fight. I really give Tony a chance to stop Manny. Bad fight for him win or lose. I am totally shocked Freddie Roach is approving this fight. Margarito is 6 inches taller and at least 25lbs naturally heavier than Manny. 
 
What’s good Bread. As much as it pains me to say this, Arum is correct when he says that he should take the whole pie because he spent years developing it. One thing that constantly frustrates me is promoters that rely on the networks to schedule shows. Berto, Williams, Bradley, Alexander etc…these guys only fight twice a year and only on the networks. If there is no date they shelve their fighters until a date opens up. Top Rank has no problem investing in a PPV, with or without HBO. Cotto, Margarito, Pavlik and Pac-Man have all been featured on small PPV shows when HBO didn’t or wouldn’t give dates. Do you remember the split site PPV featuring Pavlik and Cotto. This PPV was after these guys were established fighters on HBO. Berto and Williams will sit on the shelf for six months because their promoters do not have the juice or the desire to invest in smaller PPV shows. So would I rather see Pac vs. Berto? Of course. But Arum is right he spent years developing Margarito as an attraction and he should reap some of that investment. It is not best for boxing, but it is not as harmful as people are making it out to be. If Berto or Williams had been developed properly they would be fighting one of the top guys. Take care.  Roy

Bread’s Response: Roy I agree that thos guys should be more active. I hate it that once a fighter wins a title ,he fights twice a year now. That is so counterproductive. Fighters improve when they are coming up because they are active. Then all of a sudden they fight twice a year. People wonder why these elite fighters don’t improve. I disagree that Arum should take the whole pie. Arum is simply making a bad fight for boxing. I blame Manny more because he can just not take the fight.
 
Hey Bread, You continue to impress everyone in the boxing community with you unbiased and well thought-out responses to the many questions answered in the maibag. It is refreshing to hear the TRUTH and not B.S. I'm writing to you do to my grave concerns with the state of the boxing game. I'm been a huge fan following the game almost religiously since about 2000. I must truthfully admit, boxing is alientating fans more and more on a daily basis. Last week was an absolute disaster. Briggs coming out of retirement to fight Danny Green only to take a light glancing jab on the top of the head and drop for the count. 29 seconds, Come on. This dive Briggs took was another blow to out sport. Even worse, if he didn't take the dive, clearly he should have not been licensed to be in the ring given he could not even take a single glancing jab. The whole circus with Briggs and Green was just sad...Then we have Bob Arum shoving the worst case secenio matchup down our throats. How pathetic is Bob Arum ? More in house matching from Bob Arum so that he can self-serve himself all the way to the bank while riding on the back of the fighters. No way will I purchase that PPV crap with Pacquiao and Marga-cheato....At least we have a great PPV event this Saturday 7/31/2010 with Juan M. Marquez and Juan Diaz. haha. Are they actually charing for that event. That crap should be on Boxing After Dark. How do both guys lose their last bouts and then get a PPV date? Who's bright idea was it to match those two and charge us $54.99? Why PPV and not regular HBO. Call it a Golden Turd. Trust me, the PPV numbers will be sad just like the matchup. I'm not even sure what to look forward anymore about boxing. My question to you Breadman, what are positives going forth in the boxing game if any? Please given me and other mailbag readers some postives about the sport because I just don't see any. Thanks, Sully from Boston

Bread’s Response: Thanks again. Boxing will go on. We have some excellent fights coming up. Ivan Calderon vs. Giovanni Segura could have historical impact. We have Marquez vs. Lopez. Gamboa vs. Rojas. The Super 6 is alive and kicking. WE WILL SURVIVE, trust me. Things always fall into place. Boxing has survived worse. WWII and the color block.
 
hey bread whats up,dont look like any great fights are going to happen.im about to run down a list of potential fights and you tell me the likely hood of them happening and who would win.Zab Judah v Juan Urango, Cotto v Angello, Berto v Clottely, Mike Jones v Demetrius Hopkins, PBF v Erik Morales, Amir Khan v Marcos Maidana, Pwill v Martinez, Bradley v Alexander, Dawson v Cloud, Joan Guzman v Lamont Peterson, JM marquez v Roberto Guerrero, Kelly Pavlik v Robert Steiglitz. Peace and congrats on the life sentence lol i mean the marriage

Bread’s Response: Zab would beat Urango and that fight could happen. I’m 50/50 on Cotto vs. Angulo. I would take Berto to beat Clottey in a close one. It could happen. I would pick Hopkins to upset Jones, not sure if that will happen. Floyd will kill Eric Morales. Khan may out box Maidana but I’m not super sure. Martinez to edge Paul in a rematch. Alexander to beat Bradley. Dawson to beat Cloud as of now, I want to see the Johnson fight though. Guzman to beat Peterson. Marquez to beat Guerrero. Pavlik over Steiglitz.  Aw man my wife is pissed, just kidding!
 

Many people have been criticizing Bob Arum for selecting Antonio Margarito or Miguel Cotto as potential fights against Manny Pacquaio. However, what are the options, especially with Floyd Mayweather on an extended “vacation”?! What can he do if Mayweather is unwilling to fight Pacquaio? Whos out there? The options are not better fighters than Margarito or Cotto. The one who really disappoints is big mouth, fraud mayweather. I recall very recently, Fraud and his dysfunctional entourage going all over thrashing Pacquiao’s achievements, especially “daddy” and soon to be convict uncle roger, but when the time came to put their stupid comments into action and make the fight, they balked miserably. They can say whatever of Margarito or Cotto, but they are warriors, they’ll fight anyone, anywhere.
Bread’s Response: I feel you but, Andre Berto, Timothy Bradley and "Perro" Angulo would be better right now.


 
Word is that Floyd is in Puerto Rico and is going to schedule a meetring with Miguel Cotto. Now, we know Cotto can not deal the fight without Top Rank but this is just two fighter having a conversation that could make things easier to get the fight done. Like them agreeing on a general basis to the splits and making Cotto put some pressure on Top Rank who's gonna do all they can to make Mayweather fight Pacquiao or leave him without lucrative options, cause you know, apart from Pacquiao I think Cotto is the next other figjrt who brings the most money to the table in a fight with maywether. Not Martinez, not Williams, not Cintron, Bradley, Khan, or whoever you want to name. So here is Floyd being intelligent, moving to the best other option and talking directly to the fighter so that Cotto is aware of the money and the possible conflict of interest his management may have so that he could put some pressure on them so that the fight be done. Personally I like the fight. It's the best of the divisions against the best. Sure Maywether is in another level and the best fight is Pacquiao but if it can not be made, Cotto-Maywether is a great plan B.

Bread’s Response: Floyd can go after Cotto if he wants but I’m not so sure Arum will allow this fight. We shall see.
 
Breadman, you continue to show that you belong with the best boxing writers out there. Keep pumping out these mailbags and bringing the knowledge. I feel I’m one of the most loyal Floyd fans out there, but people confuse being a true fan as being this blind, loyal, don’t say anything bad about your team/fighter. But, as you have done, we have to call B.S. when we see it. We can blame Arum all we want, but I couldn’t agree with you more on Floyd. He’s ran out of excuses. Unless he shows something, I’m beginning to think also that he never wanted the fight. Floyd Sr’s comments have gotten in his head, “my son always has had problems with southpaws”, “Manny must be on something to be doing this”, “I advised my son not to fight him”, etc. Floyd wants to appease his old man, since he’s gotten back into the fold, by respecting and listening to him. In an SI article after the Mosely fight, Floyd was quoted as saying “I wanted to try to finish him but I knew my dad wouldn’t like that.” I realize Floyd can make the decision ultimately, but this may be playing into it all. Either way, it’s a bunch of BS. I, like you, really don’t care anymore. You bring up an interesting point about Donaire….why isn’t he getting showcased on the undercards of Pac? We know Pac appears to be honorable and loyal to his people, so why would he not let his fellow Pinoy and fighter piggyback off of his success? And it’s not like Donaire can’t fight. I can’t help but think that maybe Pac’s greedy management team/hangers on want a bigger piece of the pie. Maybe a stipulation was that Freddie Roach must train him. Who knows? But you’re right again, very puzzling.  Right again about Zab. Despite his flaws, I’ve always admired his talent. Although we agree to disagree on whether he is a contender vs championship caliber, he’ll have to continue to fight some ex-champs or contenders himself. Not one of these young champs at 140 management teams will put their fighter in with him right now. He’ll just have to continue to get impressive knockouts and generate interest in him again until he cannot be ignored anymore. DC

Bread’s Response: One more good win and Zab is in the money.
 
 
What's up bread? I am a Floyd fan and I want to tell him stop being a p****y! Make the fight with Manny and stop making excuses. You feel you are the best to ever lace them up, then do it! The fight needs no promoting just his and Manny's signature on the dotted line. If Floyd doesn't try to make this fight this year then I will be inclined to think he's afraid his O will go. Floyd I know you still read boxingtalk so make it happen cause time off will cost you money(I know you care less about fans). Because if Manny fights and wins he will demand lions share and won't be criticized for not fighting you and God forbid he loses to Margarito, then he can make more money fighting a rematch than a fight with you and no one wants to see Floyd versus Margarito! So for once do your fans a favor and make the fight with Manny happen. There is more than enough money(which you love) to make it worth the risk!

Bread’s Response: I believe Floyd is more inclined to beat on Manny on paper than he is in the ring. He acts like they are politicians. He likes to tell everyone he is better but we want him to show it.  Bhop who I have a lot of respect for attempted to do the same thing to Roy Jones. Hopkins knew he performed better against the same opponents, Johnson, Tarver and Calzaghe. He also knew his prime lasted longer. So he put off the rematch and made his superior claim. Floyd trashes Manny because Manny has been stopped. He says he makes more money and is the bigger draw. He states he does not fight catch weight fights. But he won’t state is let’s fight November 13th. Floyd beats Manny on paper but fights are held in the ring.
 
 
 
What’s Good Bread, I know you said that you won’t be taking anymore Mayweather/Pacquiao e-mails but I’d like to put in my two cents I am disgusted with the actions of these two. I told you a few months back that this fight had to be made not to feed into all the hype generated by the print and broadcast media but to write the history of a sport that has as much tradition as any in this country, baseball and horse racing included. It disgusts me that Floyd Mayweather has the audacity to call himself the G.O.A.T and he has the chance to fight the best fighter of his era and get paid handsomely to do so in tough economic times and now the man decides he wants to take a vacation. Give me a break. This is an insult to all the boxing heads that have purchased the PPV’s that have ensured he has enough wealth for his children’s children to enjoy. Yet I am not surprises by his actions because these athletes simply aren’t built from the same cloth as athletes of a yester years. In the 80’s cats like Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Isiah Thomas and Micheal Jordan were trying o kill each other on the court and now you have dudes like LeBron James and Dwayne Wade joining the same team. Leonard, Hagler, Duran and Hearns all fought each other at least once in boxing’s last golden age and now you have Mayweather blatantly ducking Pacquiao. It’s funny that Mayweather calls himself “Money” yet he refuses to make $60 mil to fight the best fighter of his era. Does it get anymore blatant than that? I am also disgusted by Manny Pacquiao and I will no longer give him a pass for his lack of assertiveness being due to him being a foreigner who doesn’t command the English language well. I understand that Floyd doesn’t want to fight him and you can’t stress what he can’t control but he has his choice of an abundance of credible opponents from 140-154 and if he chooses to fight a disgrace like Antonio Margacheato then he is a disgrace. Bradley, Berto and P-Will compete at 140, 147 and 147/154 respectively and they would all be credible opponents. I respect Freddie Roach but before he blabbers that his guy would knock out Bradley in a round, put him in there with an Afro-American with elite athletic and physical ability like a Bradley, Berto or P-Will. Pacquiao has proven he is a pit-bull in the ring and he has to be one outside of the ring in demanding challenging fights against honest and credible fighters unlike Margacheato. The best thing we as consumers more than boxing fans we can do is not support Mayweather until he agrees to fight Pacquiao and ignoring the trash that Top Rank is trying to sell us on November 13. That might get their attention.
Before I let you go Bread give me your take on these theoretical matchups, JuanMa Marquez vs. Whitaker at 130, M. Spinks vs. Calzaghe at 175, Trinidad vs. Pavlik at 160 and a prime Larry Holmes against both of the Klitschko brothers. I’m done like my NY Mets’ season… EZ Albert from The X, NY

Bread’s Response:  I agree 100% Albert.
 
Whitaker was not a 130lber but he would beat Marquez on a 9-3 type of decision. Whiatker was almost untouchable as a lightweight.
 
I take Spinks to ko Calzaghe. Calzaghe would probably be winning but Spinks was a vicious puncher at 175. His knockout of Marvin Johnson is probably my all time favorite. I think he would hit Calzaghe with a similar punch. A left uppercut is something a southpaw never sees or expects from a right handed fighter.
 
Holmes is 50/50 with both K bros. Very close fights. I say 50/50 because Holmes was great but vulnerable. He had poor head movement and the K bros can punch. I will say this though in 15 round fights, I would take Larry to edge both of them. Holmes can fight under severe fatigue. Wladimor does not operate well under fatigue and Vitali loses form when he is forced to fight hard. Look at his fight with Lewis.

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