BOXINGTALK'S DAILY BREAD
By Stephen Edwards

Breadman, hope your doing well, I haven't wrote you in a while but this last duck and roll move by pretty boy Floyd has forced me to type! Floyd has proved what many thought about his career, he is in it for himself, he has hustled, and bluffed his way through.. good for him, he got the dough , now time to go, I have met a few guys who were real scrappers on the street, never been beat, yes Never been beat, your neighborhood had em, and mine did too, The problem is they pick and chose their fights,, Were they to get it on every time someone bucked, the 0 would probably go,. that's how I see floyd, he is the kid in the hood, lookin good, never lost , and on the surface seems to be unbeatable, ,but then you look around and realize , he loves to pick and loves to chose, he retired the first time without touching a boat load of money on the table, for a man that wants to be known as money, seems like a foolish move to leave such a stack on the table and walk away.. but remember the hood, Then after the smoke clears he returns , oh the joy, oh the praise ,, money Floyd is gonna get back to it, .. he gets a sparing session with a marquez, and gets bank for it, demands himself out of an honest fight with Manny,, then he gets hooked up with Shane, ,, and to be fair to Shane most everyone wanted to see him win, but lets face it, hopes,, and wants,, and dreams are far from reality, ... and reality is Shane has been defeated several times, and age ,, 38 is well past his prime, not tryin to take a thing from him either, but floyd had a megga payday on that one too,, he just hustled himself millions of millions of dollars then spit in the face of those who gave him that money, THE FANS !!!its all about him, its always been about him, Anyway the whole thing got me so disgusted that all I want to see from Manny is a 12 round fight with Shane, and of course I want to see shane knocked out in the earlier rounds, but I feel confident , Manny will do shane like floyd never could, as in Oscar, as in Ricky, and if nothing else history will record the truth, as I doubt Floyd will ever step up to the plate, he might , but I sure wont bet on it, anyway, I feel better since gettin my thoughts off my chest.. take care,
T.James

Bread’s Response: I knew a guy like the one you are describing. Actually I knew two. One I went to school with the other was from my hood. The one I went to school with got the shit beat out of him by a bigger, older kid. He didn’t choose that fight, he was chosen.
 
The second one from my hood, me and my brother beat the holy horse shit out him in 10th St. playground in the summer of ‘89. It had to be done so we did it. Yeah so what we jumped him lol. True story.
 
The point of my comment is in the streets, you can force a guy to fight or flee by just walking up to him and punching him in the face. Manny does not have the right personality to force Floyd into a fight. If Manny had James Toney’s personality then the fight would be made. Guys who want Floyd in the ring don’t know how to do it.
 
Think about this. The guys who for some reason or another that Floyd has not fought (Williams, Margarito, Cotto, Pac Man and up until May 1st Mosley) are all excellent fighters but they are gentlemen outside of the ring. I was taught long ago there is a big difference between heart and pride. Sometimes you get the same result but they are different.
 
Listen close guys Breadman logic 101. You are fighting for pride if a guy who you know you can’t beat walks up to you at a gas station and punches you in the face. Your mom, your kids and your wife are all with you. You put hands up and get down. That’s pride.
 
Now, same guy walks up to you, 4 am in the morning. Same gas station. Not one soul is on the streets. He hits you with same punch and you rumble your ass off and take your ass whoopin. That’s heart because if you turned and ran, no one would ever know. More people have pride than they do heart.
 
Manny does not have the personality to challenge Floyd’s pride(ego). Are you guys feeling me? I’m getting deep. Duran told Leonard’s wife and sister to #*#* his you know what. That’s how you piss someone off. It deplorable but it worked.
These fighters who challenge Floyd don’t go about it the right way. Duran or Toney or Bhop would smack or spit in his face at a press conference. I am in no way suggesting someone do this. It’s just my opinion that these guys don’t know how to handle Floyd. Floyd tore Oscar and Shane up personally. Can you guys imagine the shit Bernard and James Toney would be saying about Floyd if they were the same weight? Manny is just a gentleman, oh well…..
 
 
Whatsup', Bread? Once again, still digging your mailbags. I'm just going to throw out some random thoughts and see what you think. Reading that DiBella is making a push for Caballero to step in for Rojas against Gamboa. Lou is even offering to take a lower cut just to make the bout happen. How do you see this playing out? To me, a sure sign of a fighters ability is the confidence of his braintrust. Celestino has been willing to fight the top dogs for a while now and I hope he finally gets his chance. As for how the contest may go? Gamboa is certainly a dynamic fighter, but at times a bit too reckless. Caballero seems to be an overall sound boxer, doing many things well but not any single thing extraordinary. I see a close, maybe controversial nod for Gamboa. Excellent insight into the behind the scenes on the Money - Manny negotiations. Haymon and Ellerbee really went after Floyd during the first round of talks? That is amazing. I wonder what else has yet to come out - or that you guys at BTalk know and might let slip. I know this is not an original topic, but, I am curious as to how you would rate the ability of Jack Dempsey. I know you generally believe that the modern style came about during the '30's ( with a few exceptions ala Tunney, Loughran ), so how would you grade this legend. Going by contemporary reports, he was the purest form of savagery that had ever been witnessed. Ray Arcel - who saw them all up to Tyson - deemed Jack the greatest fighter the sport had ever seen. In later years, men like Tunney and Sharkey put him levels above anyone who had come since. That included Joe Louis and Ali. I have my own opinion and it ranks somewhere in the middle. If you were
to have a tournament with all the great heavyweights, much like a baseball season, he would not finish undefeated. But he would have a winning record. Mike from Tampa


Bread’s Response: Looks like Caballerro may get the fight. I am 50/50 , I like both guys. I will give you my pick as it gets closer. Yeah I hear they went after Floyd as he left the mediation room. They were allegedly trying to get him to take the fight. We can ask Arum. Maybe he can shed some light.
 
We know a few things over here………….
 
I actually rate Dempsey pretty high in a pound for pound sense. See if you rate a 6 foot , 185lb heavyweight against today’s heavyweights do you assume if he were fighting today he would be 215lbs because of all the protein supplements etc. Do you rate them in a pound for pound sense or do you just rate them as is? As is, Dempsey would be a cruiserweight today and he would easily be champion. I like Steve Cunningham but Jack Dempsey would ko him inside of 4 rounds. Dempsey gets rated high by me because of style. I am not saying that he had no skill because he came forward. But his success was predicated on him being a savage. His brutal one punch power,  toughness, strength, stamina and his technique. Therefore although the contemporary style came after Dempsey, even if he was from the 30’s on up he would have still been an animal. Tyson happens to love Dempsey and fought very similiar.
 
Dempsey in my eyes is one of 13 elite heavyweights who have distinguished themselves from their contemporaries. In order Johnson, Dempsey, Louis, Charles, Marciano, Liston, Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson, Holyfield and Lewis. The K bros are closing in rapidly.
 
 
whats good time for fantasy matchups.what are your predictions assuming everyone is in there prime, roy jones at 175 v. evander holyfield at crusierweight, shane mosley vs. hector camacho at 135, roberto duran vs tito trindad at 147, oscar del la hoya vs cotto at 147, floyd mayweather vs kostya tszyu at 140, erik morales vs acelino freitas at 130, shane mosley vs deigo corrales at 135, james toney vs joe calzaghe at 168, zab judah vs shamba mitchell at 140, pac man vs meldrick taylor, the late davey moore vs. andre berto.what do you think would be the outcome.

Bread’s Response: If you look at Evander after his 1st fight in 86 against Qawi, then look at him in the 2nd fight in 88 he looked liked a different fighter. He had turned into an animal. He was so much stronger than Qawi the 2nd time. It shocked him and Qawi admitted it. That Holyfield would hurt Roy. Roy may be p4p better but he would have to literally run all night against that 26 year old Evander. Mosley would beat Camacho but not by as much as some would think. Duran over Tito. Oscar over Cotto. Floyd over Tszyu. Morales over Freitas in a tight one. Shane over Diego. Calzaghe is too busy and mobile for Toney. Bad style for James. Judah over Mitchell. Pac Man over Melly Mel but he would have to earn it. Mel gives anybody at 140 hell. Davey Moore would knock Berto out. Don’t let that Duran fight fool you. Davey Moore could have been a great fighter if he wasn’t matched so fast.
 
Yo Bread, wanted to add my 2 cents regarding the PBF/PAC debacle. Let me say this, Floyd has WAY more at stake if this fight were to happen. The always humble Pacquiao would be as gracious in victory as he would in defeat. PBF on the other hand has an ego that requires it's own zip code. His undefeated record coupled with his aura of invincibility has taken on a life of it's own. I believe that it consumes him, it's become an obsession and now that a REAL threat has surfaced, he just can't bring himself to face the fact that there is a real possibility he's not at the level of greatness that he thinks he's fooled the public into believing he is. Can you imagine what would happen to Floyd if he LOST? No more swagger, no more runnin his mouth, no more callin all the shots. A loss would DESTROY Floyd and he's not willing to take that risk. The "character" that he's spent years building, the undefeated, cocky, big mouthed, invincible super villian would die if Pac beat him, and that's not worth any amount of money to the guy, as he's clearly stated with his latest actions (which ALWAYS speak louder than words). What do you think about this strategy? Turning Mayweather's strengths into weaknesses. The "Manny" camp needs to employ a big mouth in the business, somebody who can publicly attack Mayweather's ego, the thing he holds dearest, and exploit this fact by forcing PBF to come to it's defence. I remember he said he'd fight Hatton cuz Ricky called him out on HBO. Well what if somebody from Pacman's camp creatively and RELENTLESSLY called PBF out for being a fraud or just plain scared? Sooner or later I believe it would bother Floyd so much that he'd have no choice but to make the fight happen. Legacy won't make Floyd sign on the dotted line, nor will money as he clearly has enough of it. Hitting him where he is most vulnerable - his ego - in my opinion is a very interesting strategy. Dave in Vancouver, BC

Bread’s Response: I agree. I answered the question above before I ever read your comment.
 
After the 3rd Tarver fight Roy said something along the lines of no one really knowing what was going on in his corner. He intimated that there was a power struggle between big Roy and Coach Merk. He also said that he was very conflicted during the fight; he didn’t feel it was right if he won because his dad would get all the glory when the glory should go to God, basically that there was a lot going on behind the scenes that we weren’t privy too. It has also been well documented how hard his father was on him growing up; his dad would spar with him, yell at him, beat him, physically and verbally abuse him, with the belief that this would make him tough enough to one day become champion. It is impossible for any of us to fully understand the dynamic of this relationship, we can relate to it, but there is only one Roy Sr. and one Roy Jr. Isn’t it possible that their relationship was so volatile that Roy really did feel this way? Did Roy’s comment seem a little off-base? Perhaps, but Jones was still dealing with the tremendous drop his career took. He was at the peak of boxing close to 15 years, and dropped quicker than most, and imo quicker than anyone in boxing before him (I think you may have said the same thing in one of the mailbags), so that in itself could drive a man insane. Point being, we all say things that are misunderstood by other people, things we say out of emotion we later regret, and things that need to be further explained to express one’s true feelings. No matter how crazy you think his comments were I know that Roy could explain himself to you better than I can, and you’ll probably get the opportunity if you feel like asking him said question in an interview. I have followed Roy’s career extremely close, and I know you have too, but one comment or action shouldn’t define someone’s career. I am not saying you feel that way, but this isn’t the first time you have brought this issue about Jones up. Let us not forget in that same fight he had Tarver hurt badly in the 5th round and was ahead on the cards after 5 rounds, he battled back after getting hurt late in the fight and turned the tables on Tarver (Emanuel Steward stated Tarver was in big trouble as evident by the telecast). I can rattle off the illustrious list of accomplishments of Jones, but you know them all too well, with that said, to get to the apex of boxing and dominate for so long and in such a way that you draw comparisons to Leonard and Robinson, do you really think a man of that stature would lose a fight on purpose? That he didn’t have the competitiveness and will to fight on? The first Tarver fight was all heart, as big George clearly said Jones was fighting on pure guts. If you want to take one instance to define him I think that example, and the Ruiz fight, would be much more appropriate, two fights that embody the most adversity he had faced (Tarver I) and his greatest achievement (Ruiz). However, as I said one quote or fight could never fully encompass all that Jones stands for and has accomplished.  Jones in 2006 - "While I'm fighting, people are supposed to be worrying about me," Roy said. "And I was worrying about what was going on in the corner between my father and Coach Merk. Around the eighth round, I realized God ain't gonna let me win tonight because, if I win, the wrong person will get the glory. If I had won, my father would have gotten all the glory and he didn't deserve it. If I had knocked out Tarver, they would have said it was because of him. My father is a good boxing guy. He taught me, but he's not good for me. So I had a lot going on; more than you can imagine. But I didn't see the whole picture until after it had passed me by." http://www.secondsout.com/columns/thomas-hauser/roy-jones-in-idaho Jones in 2009 - "It was established before the fight who would talk, but it changed during the fight," Jones said at the Memphis brunch. "You [Jones Sr.] push Merk out of the way and talk, and now I can't get Merk to say nothing. I'm seeing it all and trying to deal with all this. Somebody didn't stick to their side of the agreement. You know who it was. It's a pretty deep statement, but my father don't deserve [the glory]. He's a sharp guy. If he stuck to the plan, it all works for everybody. But he didn't stick to the plan."
"If I knock him out, who'll get the glory? Everybody would have given the glory to Roy Jones Sr.," Jones said at the brunch. "No glory would have gone to God nor myself. So would that have been right? If I won that fight any kind of way my father gets all the glory." http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/notebook?page=notebook/boxingmarch20
This is a deep topic, and there’s way more to it than meets the eye. Thank you for your time. -DK

Bread’s Response: I have a lot of respect for Roy Jones. In fact I rank him the highest rated active fighter on my all time p4p list. I only brought up what Roy said about his father, because I was asked about a fight between he and Robinson. The fight would be very close in all aspects, but I have to be honest. Those comments have to be taken into considerations when we assess Roy. I believe Robinson was tougher mentally and physically.

When Roy lost a slight step he started getting dominated and stopped by A level guys. Robinson would lose some and win some but not get stopped. One stoppage in over 200 fights and that was heat exhaustion. He proved to be tougher than Roy once he got past it as we like to say.
 
Roy’s comments do bother me. I know he and his dad had some problems. But it sounded to me that Roy was sort of glad he didn’t win because he didn’t want his dad to get credit. I’m sorry but that’s counterproductive to me. A win is always better than a loss. We can sort out the credits later.
 
Roy also used to say, yall don’t want me to bring RJ out. I used to yell at the TV screen and say yes I do, bring him out. Hurt this fools RJ. I never understood that and I didn’t buy into it. Roy should have summoned RJ in the Glen Johnson fight big time.
 
This is no knock on Roy whatsoever. I am just writing what I observed. I think when Roy became past it, he was still more physically gifted than 95% of the fighters in the world. Roy is still fast now! Roy does not let his hands go anymore. I’m not talking about pulling the trigger when you see an open shot. I’m talking about digging your toes in the canvas and becoming an animal win or lose. Roy has not done that in years and let us be honest, he could have. He looked good against Lacy and Hanshaw , he is an enigma at times. Roy used to openly talk about his health after the McClellan incident. Robinson killed Jimmy Doyle and knocked somebody else out a few months later. You see where I’m going.  Roy just has a different make up. I love the guy and it hurts me to see people laugh at him now. But the truth is Roy was not a killer. And later in his career if he was a killer it would have made up for him slowing down slightly.
 
Whats good Bread? I completely agree with what you said about Being suprised that Freddy Roach approved the Margarito fight for Manny. Aside from the height and natural weight difference, there's something that I think could cause Manny some serious problems in the fight. Margarito may be able to do the one thing that I think can cause Manny some big time problems, and that is force Manny to consistently back up during the fight. Now, I know Shane put a big time ass whoopin on Tony, but it was more from an accumulation of damage over the course of the fight. I would be shocked if Manny put Margs out with one big shot. If Margarito is able to force Manny to back up more than hes comfortable doing, he can take a lot of the sting away from Manny's shots seing as how he uses his legs to provide a good amount of his power on his shots. Could you imagine how much the landscape of the welterweight division would change if Manny were to be stopped by Margarito?! When you think about it, Bob Arum could be absolutely fucking himself. Think about it like this, lets say Margarito wins convincingly. Any possibilities of a Floyd Manny fight could go by the wayside due to Manny's loss and Floyd re-claiming the sole #1 P4P ranking. Now the Cotto Margarito rematch is all the more interesting, except now its at 154 and its for Margaritos belt. Now here's where it really gets good. Floyd could then end up fighting, and beating the winner of said title fight at 154. Should Floyd win, you could then have an in house Haymon title fight at 154 between Floyd and Paul Williams while Berto, another Haymon guy remains at 147 with peotential fights with Shane, Alexander or Bradley. Oh what the future may hold...What do you think Bread?  Amac. Cali all day.

Bread’s Response: There is a lot of room between the cup and the lip for your scenario but it’s not out of the question. Floyd is waiting for Manny to get knocked off or to slip. No doubt in my mind. Soon Haymon will be forced to make fights between his fighters. I think  Williams and Berto will leave him after their contracts expire. He is a great manager but you can’t do what’s best for them and what’s best for Floyd if they are all in the same division.
 
Roach should not let Manny anywhere near Margarito. I love Freddie but bad move everyway you look at it. They better hope Tony does not get the rhythm he had against Cotto and Cintron, where he was literally running after them in the ring. This a fight between a middleweight and a junoir welterweight. This fight is not worth it win or lose.

 
 
Final Note: Someone sent Greg Leon a comment a few days ago, suggesting that I did not have the courage to post their comment. The comment was based on race. I play about many things but I am a black man first. I don't condone any exploitation or unfair treatment of minorities. This person suggested that he sent me the comment. Which is an outright lie. I would have posted it because I love to call out liars.

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