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December 10, 2012

DAILY BREAD MODAY EDITION: HAIL TO JM MARQUEZ 12-10-12
By Stephen "Breadman" Edwards

Bread, I noticed you didnít do a video mailbag for Juan Manuel Marquez-Manny Pacquiao IV. Why not? Give us your take on the fight? How did you think each guy looked leading up to Marquez's KO of Pacquiao? And Floyd Mayweather dodged another bullet, Iím done with that. Elaborate, Breadman, youíve been quiet for too long.


Breadís Response: I have received about 250 of basically the same e-mails. I am publishing only the short and to-the-point e-mails. No need to be repetitiveÖ.

First off congratulations to Juan Manuel Marquez. He threw one of the greatest punches in the history of boxing. He is also the epitome of perseverance. Marquez was overlooked early on his career. He had a lost very early on a DQ. Most regarded Erik Morales and Marco Antonio Barerra over him. Prince Naseem Hamed ducked him when he was the number one contender. He got dropped by Manny Pacquiao three times in their first fight, and had he not got up he would not have been able to get revenge three fights later. He lost to Freddie Norwood and Chris John. He lost to Floyd Mayweather. He was brutally dropped by Barerra. All in all Marquez has unyielding character. He never stops trying. Because of this characteristic, he is now on top of the world.

To answer you directly, I didnít do a video mailbag because I know you guys ride with my word. I am a humanitarian and I donít want to influence anybody betting if I am not sure. To be perfectly honest, the PED accusations against Marquez scared me. I received some disturbing phone calls about the use of PEDs in this fight. So I left my prediction alone and just watched the fight.

For the fight itself I thought Manny looked great. He made a great adjustment. He was sort of attacking in a serpentine motion, going off to the side of Marquez. He was constant motion and I thought he was outboxing Marquez while moving forward. Iím not a punch stat guy but I think they were credible in this fight. Manny almost doubled Marquez in punches landed throughout the first half of the fight. I thought he was winning 4 rounds to 1 going into the ko round.


I thought Marquez was Marquez. Heís a slow starter who takes inventory of your movements. He will never be able to outhustle or match Mannyís movements. But he can time him which he did perfectly. Although I thought Manny was controlling the fight, Marquez was punching awfully hard. I noticed in the 24/7 he was throwing ďsickĒ punches on the pads. You can see in this fight he was throwing some vicious shots. Iím surprised he didnít ko Manny with the first knockdown.

Nevertheless this was a great fight and the best man wonÖ.
FloydÖ. For some reason people who back Floyd, will make him victorious in a fight that someone else won. I never understood that line of thinking. Because Marquez beat Manny, now Manny would never have been a match for Floyd. If this line of thinking was correct, then Forman could have avoided Ali because Norton and Frazier beat Ali and he beat them. I just donít get it. I even received a text last night saying, Manny doesnít deserve 50/50 now. SMH. Of course he canít get 50/50 now dummy.

I will say this and move on from Floyd because this was Marquezís and Mannyís night. I overheard a great fighter sayĒ If Floyd really wanted to fight Manny, then he wouldnít let him fight so many tough fights because he can beat and ruin the payday. But Floyd doesnít want to beat Manny, he wants to get Manny beat by someone else.Ē

Iím done with that whole thing. Like I said back in 2010, they are NEVER going to fight.

 

I'mm a first time writer though i've always read your mailbags.
you're one of the few boxing writers who doesn't take sides. you tell things as they are so it's always a joy to read your insights. the best thing that i like about you though is that you criticize but you never hate. In my opinion, Marquez-Pacquiao IV. is the best fight of the tetralogy. i congratulate both fighters for giving us a fight for the ages. most of the media said they've seen it all but i guess they're wrong this time. kudos to marquez for a spectacular win. he deserves it. i've seen pac-marquez 1,2,3 and 4. i saw manny took marquez's best shot and vice versa but i've never seen marquez having this kind of power before.
lots of people blame pacquiao for the loss but im not one of them. i believe that he had the right plan. i've never seen him this sharp since the cotto fight. he had the motivation and he was winning most of the rounds before the ko. he was able to avoid marquez's counters most of the time...except for that flush, of course.he got careless there and walked into that one.
my question is, what's next for manny? he could retire but he said he wouldn't. at least, not yet. he's been an elite fighter for so long and he also has his pride. he wouldn't want to go out like this. i know he can still win a few fights and get big paydays. but this is a painful loss. he may still have the skills but this may take out something very important from his psyche and his self esteem. no fighter is ever the same after such a brutal loss..i so hope that he can come back.. manny has been magnanimous in victory and gracious in defeat. he's a real class act. and for that i'll always be proud of him being a Filipino..!
 
Breadís Response: I hope Manny retires but I doubt if he will. It would extremely difficult for Manny to come back from a brutal ko like that at 34 years old and 60 fights in. Especially with his style. Manny has to be really careful from now on because if he starts getting KO'd, the haters will take his WHOLE legacy away like they tried to do Roy Jones.

Speaking of haters I have to get this off my chest. Some feel I protect Manny Pacquiao, but thatís not the case. I defend his legacy and over time he has become a favorite of mine because of this. Let me clarify.

Some HATERS claim Manny has been matched so carefully and he always has the advantages. Thatís so not true. I canít think of another multiple division champion who was the BIG underdog in his first 3 title tries. In his first title try against Chatchai Sasukal {WBC flyweight title, 1998) he went on the road against a top 25 p4p type and got a KO. In his second title try against Ledlho Ledwaba (IBF 122-pound title), he took the fight on two weeks notice against the best guy in the division and stopped him. Then they brought him in to showcase him against Marco Antonio Barerra and he moved up and brutalized him. Then he immediately fought the next best guy in the division in Marquez. After that Morales in a trilogyÖ. When did this guy get matched carefully?


He moved up to welterweight after one fight at lightweight. He didnít get to test any of the waters. How was that careful? 90% of the people thought Oscar would kill him. There was nothing careful about jumping from 135 to 147 in one fight.

He then took on the best fighter in the division in Miguel Cotto. And he fought the guy that many thought beat Cotto in Joshua Clottey. Again I donít see careful matchmaking. He also fought Margarito who was always a BIG welterweight who never did much over 147. So Manny lets him come in at 150lbs and wear 8oz gloves and gets outweighed by almost 20 pounds on fight night. What the hell was so careful about that?

Manny then takes on an undefeated p4p fighter in Tim Bradley sandwiched by two fights with the one person who has his number in JM Marquez. If people would take off their hater shades they would see this man fought the fights.

Next they call him the Catchweight King. The man was the protagonist in 2 catchweight fights. Miguel Cotto and Antonio Margarito. Thatís it. Now I admit the Margarito fight was a BS title fight, but it was a REAL fight in the ring. To allow a big welterweight to come in at 150, when you canít even eat up to 147 at the time is not beneficial. And to ask Cotto to come in 1lb under his previous fight was more so mind games in my opinion. Speaking of catchweights Cotto fought Margarito at a catchweight and never got a bad word of press.


JM Marquez is the dog of all dogs but in his third fight with Pacquiao he asked for a catchweight of 144lb and that was a title fight. Not one person complained. Marquez also asked for a catchweight against Floyd at 144 but was burned. He didnít get flack for asking for a catchweight and Floyd didnít get flack for coming in 2lbs over. But Manny is the Catchweight KingÖ.
So many great fighters have fought at catchweights over the years but Manny gets the nickname the Catchweight King. Smh. I can name too many. I dare someone to ask me.


Then people accuse Manny of PED use when he goes on a crazy run at 140 and above. But Manny fights a fighter in Marquez who looked fat and flabby at 142 in 2009 against Mayweather. That same fighter then goes the distance with Juan Diaz in a rematch at 135 and struggles against Michael Katsiditis. Then he hires a former PED supplier and he turns into a physical marvel. One who literally has muscles in his face and people celebrate his ko of Manny. No one discredits this biggest turn around in the history of boxing as far as the look of a body at an advanced age. I have personally never seen a fighter gain so much useful muscle at almost 40 years old. But people call Pacquiao a cheater and applaud Marquez, with NO valid proof in either case. I wonder why?


So no I am not bias towards Manny Pacquiao. I respect his greatness and I defend the inconsistent judgment of this great fighter. It makes absolutely no sense. For the record both Manny and Juan Manuel are clean until proven otherwise.


 

What's good Bread?
I'm sure you will be getting tons of mail on the fight this past weekend so I wanted to chime in with my two cents. Aside from the obvious congratulations to Marquez I say the following to any potential future Pacquiao opponents: Dismiss Manny at your own peril
I think the Pacman looked rejuvenated and in boxing anybody can get caught so I don't fault him for that. The passion was back and call me crazy but I would favor Pacquaio if a 5th Marquez fight happens. No disrespect to Juan Manuel but while the ending was more definitive (emphatic one-punch KO vs. debatable decision) he wasn't the technically superior fighter this time. Manny was winning big in the 5th and it only takes one punch to end a prizefight, especially at the elite level.
I know there will be talk of a Marquez V or retirement but if I were Manny I would face Brandon Rios if possible. I know you have spoken highly of Rios in the past but I remember you saying that "if Manny is still Manny then Rios can't beat him" (or something to that effect, I'm paraphrasing). Well in my humble opinion Manny is still Manny (or close enough to it) and I could see Bam Bam getting the Margarito treatment based on what I saw on Saturday. Rios has Juan Manuel's heart and chin but not his technical ability and I could see Pacquiao darting in and out from odd angles while delivering a beatdown. The 24/7 would be good as well considering how Brandon made fun of Roach's condition when he appeared on the previous series with Margarito. I say that if Marquez doesn't face Rios (or Pacquiao again) then Manny should make that fight. I could see him looking very impressive. I look forward to hearing your thoughts.
Regards,
William in West Palm
Breadís Response: Manny looked to be the Manny of old last night. The problem is he had to win to remain that way. The KO could kill his drive to put himself through it in training camp. That is where the fights are won. Iím not sure if he can go through another camp at 100. I hear Freddie Roach really puts you through itÖ..


 

First and foremost, great main card fight between pac and jmm, but, will this win be tainted? After countless years in the sport, multiple ways to train, can a 39 year old body that has been through hell for so long adapt so well to new training techniques like that? The power seemed out of this world, every shot thumped hard. The same shots that landed in fights 1, 2, & 3 were being landed here, but now they shut the lights off. No way in hell he hits harder than shane, cotto, margo, or clottey, all of who landed clean shots as well. It smells fishy that the strength and conditioning coach has been quoted as being able to beat any test out there and welcomes the opportunity. If he is working with as many fighters as he says he is, i expect they all have this type of increase. I have much respect for both fighters, but usually where theres smoke, theres fire.
On to another week, i so wanted to attend the Donaire and Guillermo card hosted by my nearby spot of Houston but have to attend my girls' xmas party, do you see this as a setup type card having these 2 fighting together on the same card? Will we finally get to see Donaire knock Guillermo out, maybe on Marquez/Pac 5 card on Cinco de Mayo weekend? I think a card with JMM/Pac, Nonito/Rigs, Gamboa/Rios would outsell anything Mayweather puts out. Gamboa looks huuuuuuge and seemed to take a better shot this time around. He wasnt as wobbly when he got clipped. Your thoughts Bread. No disrespect to JMM, im a boxing fan, not a hugger of any particular guy, its just something doesnt feel right. That boy B from Richmond, Tx
Breadís Response: I hope the Donaire/Rigondeaux double header is a pre cursor to their battle. But donít overlook their opponents, especially Jorge Arce. I hear heís affiliated with ďMemoĒ Marquezís strength and conditioning coach. I also hear that Orlando Salido is also a member of their camp. Iím not 100% sure because I havenít seen ďMemoĒ in their camps. But if this is true then I expect Arce to be in ďcrazyĒ shape.


I want to say Iím not incriminating ďMemo" of anything illegal. Right now letís all assume heís a clean coach. And if he is clean, in my opinion he has done the greatest job in the history of boxing for one fight. The transformation of JM Marquez is nothing like I have ever seen before. Again I didnít get into the head getting bigger theory. When you gain weight your head will look fuller. I looked at my high school graduation pictures and my head looks fuller now and Iím not on a PED. But Marquez face has gained muscle and chisel. He looks awesome. If this is legit, again this is the best in the history of our sport.


 

 

Hey what's up Bread
Well it was one of those crazy nights. Still can't believe Manny got knocked cold like he did. I thought he came out and was clearly fighting with more intensity than he has recently. I was surprised to see him get droped in the 3rd but I thought he was dominating the fight except for the 2 times he got droped. I don't wanna call the punch lucky but Marquez didn't look like he had that many rounds left in him.. Manny was going for a finish and got caught cold coming in, nothing else to say really. I give Mad props to Manny on a great career. I don't think any less of him than I did yesterday. He's a beast and true warrior. Styles like Manny don't usually have much longevity in the sport. I have noticed him slightly slipping in his last few fights but I didn't see him getting knocked out like that. Much props to JMM for being a warrior himself and showing the heart to hang around long enough to land that punch.
As for Floyd vs Manny. Why do I have a feeling Floyd is ready to fight? LOL what a F****** coward. A smart coward but a coward none the less. I know your critical on me calling fighters out like that but hey if I see a spade I call it a spade . You notice how everyone Floyd fights has always shown some kind of weakness before Floyd will sign to fight them? Manny was the first fighter who Floyd couldn't see a blatant weakness mentally or psychically so he refused to fight him at his best. He kinda reminds me a little of Joe Calzaghe and how he hid under his rock in Wales fighting David Starie and Will "kid fire" Mccintire while Roy Jones and Bernard Hopkins were kicking ass over in the USA. He didn't want none, until they were both old as hell. So Calzaghe retires undefeated and adds those names to his resume. I truly believe 3 or 4 years ago Manny would of beat Floyd but I guess it don't mean nothing now.
I'm not calling Manny offically done just yet though. He needs to do some soul searching and see if he really has what it takes to come back from this devastating loss. I didn't think he should of even fought Marquez again. Bad business on the part of Arum and Manny for even accepting the fight. He already had 2 wins over him and there was no real public demand for the fight. It was very similar to the Roy Jones-Tarver situation. Roy clearly beat him the first fight but to satisfy what he believed was a little 'controversy" he fought Tarver again. Tarver like Marquez , was 100% obsessed in beating RJJ like Marquez was in beating Manny. When a guy bases his whole life on beating you it's always gonna be a dangerous fight. I won't lie though, before the fight I thought no result in this world could make me want to see a Manny vs JMM 5 but after that who wouldn't wanna see it now? Floyd wasn't gonna fight Manny in 2013 anyway. He wants to fight a tune up in May then fight Tim Bradley in Sept. Why do you think Floyd was so quiet after Bradley got that bullshit decision over Manny. He has been wanting Bradley since then to say he beat the man who beat Manny so he could ignore and brush off Manny more than he already was doing.
Bottom line, the Floyd -Manny fight will never be as big as it could of been. Even though Manny got KTFO last night he still landed some wicked hard punches, showed good speed and busted marquez up pretty damn good through 6 rounds. I'm still not sure Floyd wants to go through that type of fight. If Floyd had 1/10 of the courage and heart of JMM he would be known as one 5 greatest fighters of all time. I think If Manny can regain his confidence he can beat Marquez in a 5th fight. I think his punch resistance is still fine he just got caught with a PERFECT punch flush on the chin. Maybe now Manny can take a more business like approach. It was cute how he was acting like a clown for most of the promotion and laughing and smiling like he was going on a walk in the park, with a young girl ,wearing a pink dress , eating a ice cream cone. For Marquez it was life or death.
Here's what I hope happens. Manny and JMM fight on a card in separate bouts against somewhat easy opponents a few weeks before or after Floyds May 5 date. Marquez can make a lil money and have a little time to bask in the glory of his huge legacy defining win. Manny can reestablish himself. They plan a Marquez -Pacman 5 for a few weeks before or after Floyds September date. Floyd wins , Manny wins and they can finally have a Manny vs Floyd fight early 2014.. Hey it could happen lol.
DJ
P.S. He's before my time but I have just recently been watching a lot of Sugar Ray Leonard fights from early in his career and in his prime. I had seen re runs of his fights with Hearns/ Duran / Hagler but never the fights from the early stages of his career and some of his title defenses. OMG Bread he was a fucking absolute MONSTER in every sense of the word. His punches are so fast and pinpoint it's ridiculous. His combinations are like a fully automatic machine gun going off. He was a real Killer as well. When he hurt someone he finished them BRUTALLY.. I don't think he gets nearly enough attention or recognition for what a great fighter he was. Do you have a favorite Ray Leonard fight? Why is that your fav?
Breadís Response: I feel you Dan and I wonít criticize you today. This was a tough sight on anybody who respects Manny. I can see you think highly of him and believe it or not I do too. I actually regarded him as the best fighter since the great Roy Jones Jr. slipped.


Watching Manny get kod, was the same for me as watching Tarver ko Jones. I will admit it, the shock made my heart skip a beat. But thatís boxing bro, it happens. Anything can happen in a boxing ring, thatís why you have to train hard and smart and try to take luck out of the equation. But that wasnít a lucky punch. It was a great opportunity. Marquez has been throwing that shot forever.


Yes I agree, Arum hurts Manny. I have said for the longest they were going to get him beat and they did, brutally. Oh well.
My favorite Ray Leonard fights to watch besides his big ones are him vs Bruce Finch (absolute prime), Andy Price (great finish) and Daniel Gonzales (one punch brutality). Check them out.


 

 

 

 

Send questions and comments to: dabreadman25@hotmail.com



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