DAILY BREAD CHRISTMAS EVE EDITION
By Stephen "Breadman" Edwards
In a losing effort I occasionally here a fighter say that he "overtrained". Ricky Hatton said it after his loss against Manny Pacquiao, although it wouldn't have mattered anyway. Since you train guys, can you give me an example of what overtraining would be? Another thing that's starting to piss me is how the boxing world(fans & media) perceive a single loss. These days a lone defeat can practically be a death sentence for a fighters career. I hear announcers talkin "crossroads fight" after a guy loses, which is crazy. The networks seem to want guys with undefeated records, so they are part of the problem. How many blemishes did Carmen Basilio have on his record when he upset Ray Robinson for the middleweight title? Would he have gotten that shot in this day and age? A KO loss is ever worse in this instance...not many people are saying Pacquiao can come back and compete at the highest levels like he has been. People say "look at Hatton, what about Mike Tyson?" I think Pacquiao looked great and was on the verge of stopping Juan manuel Marquez when he got caught. If they fight again who would ya bet on if you had to put the $ down right now? Thoughts on potential match-ups between Robert Guerrero vs. Floyd Mayweather and Saul "Canelo" Alvarez vs. austin Trout?--Mike from CT
Breadís Response: Lots more fighters overtrain than you know. Itís a very delicate thing and Iím learning as I go. In my short time training I think I overtrained a fighter just once. But I will never do it again with that particular fighter. No two fighters are the same and you have to observe the boxers carefully. You have to chart when he can do certain things. You have to know where he is at optimal level during a camp. You have to know where he operates best. Weight, rest days, etc etc. There is so much that goes into it.
I will put it in a nutshell. During a camp you want a fighter to peak right before the fight. After he peaks you donít want him training until exhaustion. You want him just doing light things to keep him clicking. If heís burning hard for too long while holding his peak, he can lose it. You want to leave his body hungry for max exertion which should be fight night. Therefore as a coach, you have to space things out. Starting out low and building to a climax. You overtrain when you GO too hard, for TOO long and you leave the fighterís peak in the gym.
A coach has a fight date to work with. Sometimes as a coach you get excited and push too hard too early and that will cause a fighter to get stale and not be sharp on fight night. In all honesty, for a top class fighter itís better to undertrain than to overtrain. It sounds weird but from my experience itís true.
Not all top fighters today have super glossy records but it does seem to be the cup of tea today. I think records get overblown but the treatment of a fighter after a loss often times makes him not want to lose. His promoter, manager and the network all seem to shit on him after a loss. But guys like Orlando Salido, Gabe Rosado, Glen Johnson, Sakio Bika and Rocky Juarez all suffered multiple losses early and they did well for themselves. SoÖ.
Robert Guerrero will do well against Floyd Mayweather because he will hustle in front of a pro-Mexican crowd. However, he will lose. I suspect a rematch in that fight.
Letís wait until Canelo signs to face Trout first before we get into what will happen.
Manny Pacquiao: A Game Of Chicken With Fate
In the month leading up to his fourth match with Juan Manuel Marquez, Freddie Roach the trainer of Manny Pacquiao made some eyebrow-raising comments concerning their upcoming opponent. Roach made strong PED (Performance Enhancing Drugs) insinuations, suggesting that he didn't think the physique of Marquez was all attributable to hard work and nutrition. He stated, "If (Marquez's body) is natural, I will kiss his ass. ...(Marquez) has gotten bigger and gained weight --- it throws up a red flag." Upon hearing the non-evidence based accusations the Marquez camp threatened to sue. Roach responded by simply saying, "I was just joking." "The things is, he put on a lot of muscle and if you can do that by weightlifting, that's amazing. I workout every day, and i don't get those kind of muscles." The camp of Pacquiao who had started his career at 112 pounds, was now openly skeptical of another fighter's rise in weight. This story begins in early 2010. News broke on ESPN that Manny Pacquiao and Floyd Mayweather had just agreed in principal to the biggest fight in boxing history. That fight would disintegrate several weeks later over a disagreement between camps over drug testing for performance enhancing drugs. The Pacquiao camp wanted to stick to the standard boxing commission exams, which consisted of little more than taking urine before and after the match, on the night of the fight. The Mayweather camp insisted on random olympic-style drug testing throughout camp where the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency would take blood and urine over a span of months. The Mayweather camp was well aware of the rumors and suspicions that had followed Pacquiao's rise through weight divisions, where he had knocked out or stopped much bigger opponents. Pacquiao, at the time stated that he was squeamish of needles and therefore didn't like the idea of blood testing. Pacquiao, while openly displaying many tattoos, was pressed by no major American media outlet on how someone as fearful of needles as he was could have so many tattoos (ink placed beneath the skin via needle). The largest grossing fight in boxing history, would be the biggest fight not to happen, remaining just an idea as it fell apart over the drug testing issue. Rumors had spread throughout boxing for years that it was a dirty sport (much like baseball), whose owners (promoters) knew exactly what was going on, but failed to infuse integrity into the sport. The boxing commissions much like the baseball owners, continued to turn a blind eye and watch the cash roll in. The difference between baseball and boxing, is that it's not a ball getting hit, but the body or face of a person whose life is on the line.
Upon the disintegration of the Mayweather vs Pacquiao fight, initially those that watched superstar Pacquiao balk at olympic style PED testing fell into two distinct lines of thinking. The first school of thought (the one adopted by Team Pacquiao) was that if Mayweather was demanding testing that was extra from what boxing required, than he must be leery of Pacquiao. The idea was that if Mayweather was fearful or suspicious of Pacquiao, then don't agree to anything that'll put Mayweather's mind at ease. Why give up the mental edge by making your opponent more comfortable heading into the ring? If he wants to think i'm an artificially enhanced PED freak so be it. Don't give up the mental edge heading into the ring under any circumstances. After all, Floyd Mayweather's father (Floyd Sr) had stated after watching Manny's destruction of the bigger Miguel Cotto, that there was no way he believed Pacquiao was natural and wasn't using PEDs. The second school of thought was that Pacquiao must have something to hide, because there must be a reason he was avoiding stricter steroid testing. Team Pacquiao refusing drug testing which could set a precedent to clean up the sport, only made the whispers of suspicion surrounding Pacquiao's historic move up in weight grow louder. Discussions on this topic were truly as polarizing as American politics on a national scale. Half of the public believed Floyd Mayweather was scared shitless of Manny Pacquiao. The other half of the public believed Manny was a steroid-using fraud, who had to be avoiding more rigorous testing to protect his secret. Should that secret ever be divulged, his historical legacy would be tarnished forever.
Talks of the fight that never was, would resurface seriously at least twice more over the next few years. Fast forward to 2012. Manny Pacquiao is coming off of a decision loss to Tim Bradley that most feel he won. But, prior to that the previous November, he was coming off a decision win that most people feel he lost (vs Marquez). Being that the majority of the public feels he beat Bradley, he opts out of that rematch, instead opting for a fourth fight with Marquez to set the record straight once and for all. Pacquiao has looked as good in camp as he has for years. Numerous reports say he is dropping sparring partners consistently. Weeks out from the fight Roach throws out his PEDs zinger. Odd, in the sense that Team Pacquiao has frequently been on the opposite side of non-evidence based PED accusations. I wrote at the time that what Freddie did (prior to his apology), was a disservice to both fighters who had trained hard for 8 weeks. The seed he planted in the media was an attempt to tip the field into a win-win situation for his team. If Pacquiao wins it's a great win where full-credit is given. If Marquez wins it's a questionable victory where he'll only get partial credit, because rumors to explain away his victory have already been planted. As previously stated, a total disservice to two great champions, and an even greater rivalry.
Team Pacquiao had a chance in 2010 to take the moral high ground, make boat loads of money, all the while setting a precedent of cleaning up the sport and ensuring an even playing field. After being so diametrically opposed to random in-camp blood and urine testing (for a proposed Mayweather fight), they couldn't then make the same demand of Marquez that they felt was made of them. In fact, every paradigm present in the Pacquiao/Mayweather negotiations had in fact flipped leading into the Marquez fight. Roach took on the role of accuser, even though Team Pacquiao strength and conditioning coach Alex Ariza openly disagreed with Roach's assessment. Ariza, perhaps astutely noted that it was extremely hypocritical for Team Pacquiao, which had itself been unfairly criticized in the absence of any hard evidence of wrong doing or doping. Ariza remarked that with proper nutrition and a strength and conditioning coach the results should look like Marquez does.
After years of public relations posturing, lawsuits, and Manny & Floyd playing the proverbial game of chicken enroute to a seemingly inevitable collision; Pacquiao indeed ended up playing a game of chicken. But, not with Floyd, with fate. I believe the worst thing Freddie Roach could have done to his own fighter, was to make the comments he made about Marquez in the weeks leading up to the fight. Not just to the media, but he put it into his own fighters head that his opponent was a bigger stronger man than he was. Even though the facts didn't necessarily support that. Pacquiao was the bigger man both on the scales (Marquez 143, Pacquiao 147), and in the ring (Marquez 148, Pacquiao 151). The rest as we all say is history. A fight for the ages, and an epic ending on a single punch heard around the world. For those that say it was a lucky punch, i encourage you to turn to 1:30 of the 5th round. Marquez slips a lazy jab and lands a right hand so hard Pacquaio literally turns backwards. That sequence was a literal foreward to the conclusion the next round. It's a wonder that shot wasn't the knockout punch, and all credit to Pacquiao for taking such a hellacious shot and soldiering on. Manny had been inflicting heavy damage on Marquez for most of the 5th round (other than the 1:30 mark), and appeared to be on the cusp of something big. After rallying down the stretch of the 6th rd, Manny walked face first onto a punch he never saw. The speed with which he fell was surreal, as if someone cut the cable on an elevator, and you watched it drop from view at free-fall speed. One writer described it as akin to him falling through a trap-door and disappearing from view. I'd agree with his assessment, I've never seen a fighter drop face first at that speed.
What should stand out in history is that two champions put on a fight for the ages. PED conjecture is disrespectful to Marquez' accomplishment on this night. Especially, when the principals involved were in a position to silence any talk. Juan Manuel has come on record many times saying he is ready and willing to do randomized blood and urine testing. Pacquiao's camp has been more reluctant. The ultimate irony here is that if Team Pacquaio truly believed that foul play was involved, they are ultimately complicit in the end result. As fate would have it, what they initially thought was posturing solely with Mayweather, eventually backed them into a corner on the issue publicly. There was a choice to make. They could be on one side of history, or on the other side in favor of playing mind games with an opponent that never came to be. As fate would come full-circle, Team Pacquiao's posturing with an opponent that wasn't, directly impacted the drug testing (or lack thereof) of an opponent that was. 12/8/12 forever changed the trajectory of Team Pacquiao. The truth is that in professional sports in 2012, every title fight should be under random blood and urine testing throughout fighters training camps. It's the job of a fighter's team to protect his health and protect his interests. All in Team Pacquiao who thought it more important to play games with Floyd, than to protect their own fighters interests and health did Manny Pacquiao a major disservice. The game of chicken that started with Floyd, went on to just become a game of chicken. Fate always wins that game.
Breadís Response: GREAT PIECE BIG FELLA. You really took your time and did a great job.
Unfortunately you sent it to me so therefore you want a response. I donít want to critique your stuff but I assume thatís what you sent it to me for.
You are slightly inaccurate or should I say you are looking at it from a slanted view. First off Pacquiao and Mayweather were discussing a cutoff date with the blood testing. If we can agree to remember Pacquiao had came down to 19 days and a test directly after the fight. Mayweather wanted 14 days. So thatís not the same as refusing a blood test. Also letís agree on something. The loudest rumors were spread by Team Mayweather.
If we can agree again. Floyd Sr. said before Pacquiaoís fight with Oscar De La Hoya, that Oscar would destroy Pacquiao and Oscar didnít need him in his corner. We know what happened. Then Floyd Sr. trained Ricky Hatton and he didnít go 2 rounds with the monster that they called Manny Pacquiao. Thatís when Roger went on a radio show and said that Filipino soldiers took a substance called A side Meth and it allowed the soldiers during a war to take gunshot wounds and keep fighting. These are the Mayweatherís words not mine. Floyd Jr. chipped in with his barbs about how Pacquiao was average before he was 25 then he became extra ordinary. He continuously said this despite Pac winning more titles than he did by their 25th birthdays. So after getting insulted and discredited Manny didnít oblige MayweatherÖÖ
We also must remember that Floyd didnít request bloodtesting for his first fight back after his retirement against JM Marquez. I bring that up because if he would have required Marquez get tested then his stance to save boxing would have looked credible. But by skipping over Marquez and just asking for it initially with Pacquiao it looked as if he was targeting a specific fighterÖ. So after Floyd gets Shane to agree to the testing he takes off again for over a year ,againÖ After the Mosley fight Keith Kizer the head of the NSAC gave both Floyd and Manny a surprise random test. They both passed. Kizer has since said he does not understand why Floyd didnít fight Manny during that timeÖÖ
So I agree with you that Manny screwed himself up later by not adhering to drug testing back then. But I donít think many people in Mannyís position would have given in to the ignorance and ridicule that he went through. Letís also note Mayweather has settled with Manny out of court for an undisclosed monetary sum. If we have to indulge in this we must indulge in the entirety of this debacle.
Now I want to point out some interesting statements that I think were made in a subliminal way. Freddie Roach once said, just because Floyd tells us to take the USADA test that doesnít mean we have to take those test. I had NO idea what he was talking about back then. But looking back on it now, I think Roach knew exactly what he was saying. Then Thomas Hauser puts out an article that basically says that the USADA testing is a sham. In his article he suggested that Floyd Mayweather himself has failed 3 test and had them sealed. In the same article Winky Wright is quoted in saying that he asked for a drug test against Peter Quillen. It was granted. They tested him but never gave him his results. I donít even know what to say about that or think if that is true.
Then Jim Lampley who is one of the faces of HBO boxing, made another powerful subliminal remark on his show. He didnít DOWN TALK USADA. But he gave major props to VADA and Dr. Margaret Goodman. He awarded Nonito Donaire the Fighter of The Year because engaged in test with Goodmanís organization. Does anyone find this peculiar when many more fighters have engaged in test with USADA the organization the Mayweather suggested PAcquiao use?
I purposely will not take a side in this because I believe that all of us who has taken strong sides will be made to look like fools and itís personally not worth it to me to do that especially for someone I donít know.
I will end this with this. I was there in NY for the Danny Garcia/Erik Morlaes debacle. Morales failed TWO drug test. At the weigh in I told an unnamed figure that is prominent in the sport that the fight would go on. There is no way that the fight would not take place with that being the first boxing event at the Barclay Center. The fight went onÖ
Now I ask going by everything that has been suggested, said and happened over the past couple of years. Do you really think that if Floyd or Manny would have came up dirty in a test before the biggest fight in history that we would have known? Iím not so sure at this point.
But here is where I agree with you. Manny should have been proactive just like his countryman Donaire. He shouldíve Volunteered for VADA testing, the company for some reason that most believe has the most integrity. The company that also stopped two fights from happening in Berto/Ortiz 2 and Peterson/Khan2. If Manny would have followed Nonito, then Roachís comments about why do we have to test with the company that Mayweather wants would have light bulbed more people. Feel me?
I am going to be frank. Manny may have suffered a brutal fate but I think he wants it that way. Manny lives by a certain code. I knew it when Agapito Sanchez punched him in his groin multiple times and he didnít retaliate. He looked up prayed, banged his gloves together and he rumbled. I knew it when Margarito asked for 8oz gloves in a fight that they fought over 147lbs. Not many guys would have agreed to fight in 8oz gloves with a man who would outweigh him by 20lbs on fight night. And as fate had it Manny got in the ring with Marquez, who had an admitted PED provider in his corner. Marquez also looked totally different than he had looked in their previous fights. Manny still fought him and suffered his fate. He lived with his decision as a man should and he has not once made an excuse. In fact he made his excuse during the fight by going after Marquez like a savage. He didnít care about his new muscles or the PED speculationÖ
Now Donaire willingly engages in these test. He invites his opponents to take the test also and no matter if they refuse or accept he STILL fights themÖÖ Donaire who was the A side in all of these fights has not missed a fight because his opponent will not take EXTRA test that he request. This is a very important factor when years from now we attempt to LABEL heroes and villains in this era of boxing.
I told my self a while ago that I would not send anymore comments in regards to the Manny Pacquiao - Floyd Mayweather matchup especially after seeing Manny got KOed by Juan Manuel Marquez. It has been covered numerous time on many mailbags. I will cut to the chase and say that I think that Manny would do better against Floyd than he would against Juanma and hereís why. Marquez, in my opinion, is a better counter puncher whereas Floyd is a better defensive fighter. I think that many fight fans confuse the two. Not only do I think that Juanmaís counter punching is better than Floydís but I also think that he is one of the best of all times in that regard. Floyd is a better ALL AROUND fighter and has more OPTIONS in his arsenal. Juan Manuel is primarily a counter puncher and Manny was tailor made for his style. Juanma does a better job of returning fire and hitting while being hit. Now many people try to use the fight between Juanma and Floyd to show that Floyd was a better counter puncher and by beating Marquez then he must definitely be able to beat Paquiao. The problem that thinking is that Juanma, being the smaller man was forced to have to close the distance and force the action and stay away from the end of Floydís punches. By doing this he had to abandon his counter punching style which is the nucleus of his fight game. Here is one thing that I have noticed about Floyd as a puncher. Most, if not all of his KOs have come from the left hook or if his last punch was a right before a KO it was preceded by his left. Marquezís counter right has always been the problem for Manny. I donít think that Manny was as affected by that devastating KO as he was from the pounding he took from Margarito. I thought that that fight took a lot out of him both mentally and physically and it showed in the fights that followed. I will use a football analogy to describe what the blueprint is to beat Floyd. You keep his offense off of the field. Just punch at him landing solid shots on his arms, shoulders and in the neck area just below the chin. Also use a subtle movements to make it hard for Floyd to catch on and adjust. There is more but thatís just the gist of it. What are your thoughts?
Breadís Response: Excellent analogy. You are absolutely correct. Iím tired of the Pac,May comments but this is a valid BOXING comment so itís worth the read. Let me add to your wonderful assessment.
Marquez is without a doubt one of the best counter punchers ever. Thatís his absolute wheel house. Against guys who make him lead he has trouble. Mayweather is so LOOONG compared to Marquez and so patient it kills Marquezís chances to score. Look at Marquez vs Chris John, Joel Casamayor and Marco Antonio Barerra. I thought Barrera beat him, his fight with Casamayor was even going into the ko round and John did beat him. Instinctively itís easier for Marquez to hit a target moving towards him than one going away from him. Thatís why he will always have trouble with Mayweather. Size and patience. But for pure counter puncher, heís the guy.
Floyd Mayweather is a great defensive fighter and defensive fighters are usually good counter punchers. Floyd can counter punch with the best. But heís different from Marquez. Marquez is much more violent in his counter punching. Floyd will sort of pot shot counter punch. Floyd will also, lay and roll, and ear muff to find opening. Marquez NEVER does that. He never gives up anything as far as what can be perceived as FREE punches. His defensive moves are very simple. They are actually offensive. He doesnít have the menu Floyd has. He takes a half of step back, he parries the incoming and fires and you are firing at him. He does this everytime. Sometimes you hit him, sometimes he hits you, but Marquez doesnít care. He goes to his ACE of Spades everytime you attack him.
Itís hard to over whelm Marquez because heís GOING with you. His thing is he waits for you to go FIRST. I donít understand why people from a stylistic point of view assume because Marquez troubles Pac, then that equals a Floyd victory.
First off Pac also troubles Marquez. For all of Marquezís great counter punching, Pac is always hurting, dropping or physically damaging him. Itís a weird train of thought that Pac is the only one troubled in the match up. I donít get that.
Because of Pacquiaoís penchant for violent exchanges, His workrate and body rhythm, at his best I would expect him to give Floyd nightmares. And because of Floydís length and defensive ability I would expect him to give Pacquiao nightmares. Itís a true TWO WAY fight.
Most top fighters who execute a gameplan will give trouble to superior fighters. Manny has had his trouble with long punchers like Morales and counter punchers like Marquez. Floyd has had his trouble with fast lefties like Zab Judah and Demarcus Corley. Pressure guys like JL Castillo. And volume guys like Emanuel Augustus.
No one knows how a fight will play out until two guys get in a ring. But if either side believed the fight would be so easy because of another opponentís success then the fight would have been made already.
Happy Holidays and Merry Christmas to you and yours. You've done an amazing job with the mailbag this year and I just want you to know that I really appreciate the hard work you put in inside and outside of the gym that allows you to see what you see and help give us all great insight. I know you're busy and have things your doing, so for you to make time for the mailbag.. For us fighters and fans alike, it's truly a blessing. Thanks again.
It was good seeing you on Showtime the other weekend. Shawn Porter is coming along. He'll be fine. That was a great fight for him and a great experience for him to go through. I'm looking forward to his next fight and watching his growth.
So, I do have a few questions and concerns I need your opinion on, Bread. I think Andre Berto should train with Floyd Mayweather Sr. I've been saying this for a couple of years now. You never know how the fit might work, but I think since he's trying to fight like Floyd and keeps trying to use the shoulder roll, he needs to go the man who is most known for teaching that style (or someone good at teaching that style). You need good eyes to roll your should like Mayweather, James Toney and Nicolino Locche. I'm just not impressed with Berto's coach either. I feel like the only thing he said useful during that fight was, "Bend your knees when you're in the pocket". If he hooks up with an experienced teacher who can give him a good grasp and help him identify what his style is, he should be ok.
I also don't think Cotto learned much from his Mayweather fight. I think he overlooked Trout. Every fight is different. Just because he did well against the "best" undefeated fighter of his era doesn't mean Trout is to be slept on. Cotto didn't change anything really. Trout did what Mayweather and Mosley did.. came under his gaurd and over his gaurd with uppercuts and hooks. Also, Emmanuel Steward told Cotto about having his elbows so wide, this allowed Trout to come up the middle with those straight left hands. I don't know.. I don't see how someone can come into a fight NOT having learned from his previous experience at all. That's the only reason I say he slept on Trout. I'm not taking anything from Trout either.. I'm just saying I don't think Cotto took it seriously when it came to making a plan to fight this guy.
Muhmmad Ali never used to the target mitts, so are they a necessity today? Why do you think his accuracy was so good? I don't think Floyd Mayweather Jr used them either for the Baldomir fight because Roger was in jail at the time so do you think it has something to do with his athletic ability and eyes? Did Sugar Ray Robinson use the mitts while training?
Also, (please let me get this word out) I can't stand Boxing fans that looked at Amir Khan's last fight and say, "See! A new trainer can't help that kid.. he's done! He still took punches!". They act like they were going to see significant changes in ONE CAMP.... NO! That's not how this works! The things Khan and Virg are working on takes time. I'm sure they went over a lot of things in camp but I'm also sure they focused on the things that were going to get them the victory over Molina and kept it at that. It's a process. Saying that, "You can't train a fighters chin" is true but it's ignorant to think NOTHING can be done about that. Look at Andre Ward. He was rocked once and dropped once.. they said he had no chin, but has he been dropped or rocked since? No! Because they tightened things up in camp. I'm not saying Amir Khan is the best fighter in this era but he has SO MUCH POTENTIAL! Look at what Emmanuel Steward did with Klitschko.. look at what Mayweather Sr did with DLH.. these guys put in the time and got the results. Give Khan a chance to learn what Virg is trying to teach him. This doesn't happen over night. After a couple years, we can look back and see how much improvement he's made, until then, let's enjoy the process.
Speaking of Virgil, Khan and Angulo.. are YOU seeing any subtle differences in their game? Hope to hear back! God Bless!
Champ Nation (Oakland California)
Breadís Response: I donít think Robinson or Ali used the punch mitts as we know them today. But from my research they did use variations to simulate the real fights. For example their trainers would let them punch their bare hands, which is very similar to the mitts of today. There is even footage of Eddie Futch holding the mitts for Joe Frazier in training for one of his fights against Ali. So some assume the mitts are something of the 90ís but they were around before that, just not as prominent.
Now just because those guys didnít use the mitts like we use them today doesnít mean that they wouldnít have been better had they used them feel me. I think Ali and Robinson are just freaks. When people say Roy Jones is the most athletic fighter ever I donít argue but I donít always agree. Roy Jones was exposed to more than those guys and he fights in an era of HD TV.
Look at a tape of Ali against Cleveland Williams and look at Robinson at welterweight. Against say Tony Riccio. He does not look human and thatís on bad film.
So my answer is superior talents will adapt to their environment. Robinson didnít have a guy rat tat tatting on the mitts back in the 40ís so his talent adapted and he still is in my opinion the greatest combination puncher ever without modern mitt work. Ali is not far behind, superior talents find a way to succeed.
Amir Khan looked good with Virgil Hunter. He wasnít fighting a monster but you could see Virgilís teachings. He was out there thinking and not just fighting. He was maneuvering the guy with his left hand and controlling. A sign of all of Virgilís influence. Of course he got hit. He was in the ring with a world class guy for 10 rounds. Amir Khan will always get hit. But the question is will he get hit with a shot he should be able to avoid.
People are always going to have knee jerk reactions to everything. Itís just a flaw in our make up. I was pleased with Khan.
One thing I will add. Depending on who you talk to and who has an agenda. Some people will say itís easy to take a top class guy who already knows how to fight and make him a champion. Then some people will say that itís difficult to do that because the guy has what we successful flaws and they are stuck in their ways. Remember the criticism Freddie Roach used to get.
My opinion is this. Although it takes more time because of the age factor, I would rather get a talented 12 yr old who has never boxed and mold him into the fighter that he and I envision him being. Than getting a guy who is talented but has had his ups and downs at the top level. That guy has so much going on. In reality he is someoneís elseís product that you have to re program. Virgil Hunter has difficult task in front of him with Amir KhanÖÖ.But he is doing a wonderful job so far.
Just a hypothetical question. What If Manny Pacquiao (the one that beat Oscar De La Hoya), Floyd Mayweather of 2009, Sergio Martinez, Nonito Donaire and Andre Ward are all hovering in the welterweight limit (with none of them standing above 5"10) and actually fought each other in a Super Five Tournament, how do you see things when the smoke clears out? In my humble opinion, Donaire would come out on top. Just a gut feel based on how he can adjust in the ring, crazy reflexes, timing and hand speed. Floyd and Ward has all those too, but their lack of offensive firepower that Donaire has would spell the difference. I love the Pacquiao during that crazy historic run, but I think Donaire comes out on top. What do you think?
Joey of Manila
Breadís Response: Man great question but itís too much for me to ponder. Iím not going to answer your question because Ward and Donaire are pretty much still writing their legacies. I love both guys but letís name the best two guys that both have beaten.
For Ward I will say Carl Froch and Mikkel Kessler. Two excellent fighters but not the all time great caliber. They are both borderline HOF type at best right now. Now letís go to Donaire. Vic Darchinyan and Fernando Montiel. Another two excellent fighters, possible HOF but not all time great status.
I have to see them more against superior talent before I can say how they would do in your hypothetical tourney. Iím sorry for taking the easy way out but I just donít know right now. The Floyd who fought Marquez and Mosley was a flat out beast. Martinez is operating off of a prime performance right now, his performance against Chavez was wonderful. The Manny that beat Oscar fought one of the perfect fights of modern times. In fact he fought 4 perfect fights in a row during that time. Some guys donít fight one in a career.
If you ask me who has traveled to the highest heights I would say Floyd and Manny. I think they are both better p4p than Martinez although he could probably beat them both in a real fight because of the size difference. Ask me this question about Ward and Donaire in a couple of years and I could give you a better answer.
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