DAILY BREAD WEDNESDAY EDITION (2-6-13)
By Stephen "Breadman" Edwards
Hi Bread, First off, you are the only reason I come to boxingtalk. I love the way you break down fights and also appreciate your vast boxing history knowledge. I wanted to ask you about which supplements you recommend for boxing? I assume most fighters are on some sort of program that includes: daily vitamin, electrolytes, protein powder, glutamine, glucosamine, caffeine, creatine. I am taking all the above. I am thinking about adding deer antler velvet and green coffee extract. With all the publicity around Ray Lewis I am curious to try SWATs deer spray and Antler Farms pills. I know you're not a nutritionist or mad scientist but wanted to see what you thought. --JK
PS- hope this makes the bag. first time writing.
Breadís Response: Thanks. Supplements can be a tricky thing in this day and age. Everybody is trying to get over. I personally love a balanced , clean organic diet. You would be surprised what the correct food intake will do. Itís 70% of the battle.
On top of that a multi vitamin, a good protein shake and some ZMA is all you really need unless a fighter is deficient in certain areas. I have a couple of special concoctions that I use but I wonít say them publicly because the game is to be sold not told. But overall Iím big on shopping with fighters at the Whole Foods. Itís priceless. A clean diet.
I personally donít know too much about Deer Antler extracts. I have heard mixed reports.
Wut it do bread n butta. Hope everything is good with you and yours. Congrats on the recent success homie. Keep fighting the good fight. Just watched what I hope is cory spinks' last fight. Wouldn't call him great but when I look back on his career he won fights that I didn't think he could. Honestly that's one of my criteria as far as a fighters worth. He beat mayorga, judah, and most don't remember him moving up to beat karmazin, how about that taylor fight where I thought he deserved a draw...and beating piccorillo on his turf wasn't an easy task either. I'm really not a fan but I appreciate cory. I always. Liked fighters who you knew what they were going to do and you still couldn't beat them. Spinks, wright, glen johnson, toney, jl castillo, these are the types of fighters i've always loved. Watching them make their styles work and forcing their opposition to adjust to them, few fighters ould do that.
Of the ones I mentioned spinks is the most suprising to me. He was never ever impressive but but in his prime he could make his style work so effectively. And it takes guts to fight the way he did while getting booed by thousands of people. Unfortunately he relyed on his legs too much, and when they went he just wasn't the same. He never devoloped the ability to defend on the inside...blocking, parrying, slipping consistently. He really to me was an instinctual fighter. But man! When he was in the zone he was a tough matchup. Actually I felt bad for him for awhile...still do. Look at all those big money names that came and went while he was right there...all in all he had an excellent career, damn near great really. Talking. Myself into it more and more lol.
So I hope he retires after this last fight...but meanwhile what was your opinion of him bread? And even more so, who would be your favorite fighter like I just described?...limited ability but just the will to make it work?
Good hollin @ you
Your boy marquis from da one n only southeast dc
Breadís Response: Marquis whatís up bro. I was just watching a documentary about one of DCís hood stars, Rayful Edmunds. Great view.
I really respect Cory Spinks. Because Spinks is not an assassin type people donít equate him with having a lot of heart. But Iíve always felt Spinks, Ivan Calderon and Chris Byrd had plenty of heart. They just didnít fight bruising styles.
Spinks made his style work best for him and he was one of the most discipline boxers I have ever seen. He always fights his fight, win or lose. I donít think heís a HOF but he had an excellent career and he made some good money. Spinks should be proud he made the most out of his god given talents. Excellent contemporary fighter. Meaning he was extremely good for his era but you would have to be from this era to appreciate him. As ironic as this may sound, Spinks still stands as Zab Judahís best victory after all of these years.
What do you think of Luis Franco abruptly retiring? Do you think itís a ploy to get out of his promotional deal? Is Gary Shaw his promoter? I have noticed that promoters like Gary Shaw, Lou Dibella and Dan Goosen are losing more and more power. I also noticed that your fighter Julian Williams was accompanied by Al Haymon in the ring for his last fight. Are you with Haymon now? Did you have a split with Gary Shaw?
Breadís Response: I donít whatís up with Franco. I was looking forward to his fight with Billy Dib. I have seen fighters retire before in order to get out of deals, so I wouldnít be surprised if he did it in this caseÖ..
Yes you noticed correct. There does seem to be a huge shift in power. Golden Boy has established themselves as numero uno here in the US and Top Rank is second. After that there is a huge drop off. Dibella and Shaw donít seem to have nowhere as many TV dates and they donít seem to have the once flourishing young talent they once had. I think Goosen does a little better because he has Andre Ward and because he is based on the West Coast in California, where there are more shows being done. But overall it seems that the mid-major guys are really struggling.
Now would be the time to reinvent yourself and start spending some money or aligning yourself with the right people. Lou Dibella seems to be on the right track. He is doing a show with 50 Cent. I would assume they also have to get some new talent that the networks wantÖÖ..
But here is the problem. What standout young kid would want to sign with Dibella or Shaw if GB or TR is hovering around? They would have to spend some serious money in order to get a top flight kid. Incentive......As for the stand out but not top flight kids coming out of the amateurs, their teams may be apprehensive because of the lack of TV dates. Thatís so important right now. No kid wants to wait 6 months in between fights. So you have a huge dilemma. Dibella does an off tv show but overall, I would assume that if you are not GB or TR you have to do more off tv shows or no young fighter will want to sign with you.
As for the older vets, thatís also a catch 22. If you sign with a mid major promoter you, all thatís really happening is they are waiting on a call from the networks to fill you in as an opponent on the B side of a fight. Well unless that promoter can get you a couple of winnable fights, whatís the point of signing with a promoter? You can eliminate the middle man by just allowing your management to take the call that way you donít have to break the purse down with a promoter who in actuality is just ďbookingĒ your fights.
I personally would like to see all of the big promoters be allowed to get TV dates. I like variety and it makes for a better fight scene. It also takes away perception that ALL of the best fighters, young and established are with GB or TR.
Thatís not necessarily the case. There is some good talent out here but no one is willing to cultivate it or invest in it. For example I saw this Mexican American kid named Alex Luna fight last year. I donít know his promotional situation but if this kid was with GB or TR he would be all over TV and a budding star.
This kid can get down and I donít throw that around loosely. He reminds me of a youngÖÖ. I donít even want to say it. But trust me he can fight. I think heís better than most of the young talent that TR and GB have. Itís just that he doesnít have the exposure.
If something does not change in the next year, then GB, Al Haymon and TR will run boxing here in the US and the other companies will fold. A fighter and/or another promoter will have to evolve.
If Peter Quillin beats Fernando Guerrero, who would you take in a unification match, Quillen or Gennady Golovkin? And whatís going on with the Floyd Mayweather announcement? Itís February already and they havenít announced the opponent, something stinks to me. Last question ...what great fighters are underrated in certain areas because everybody associates them something else?
Breadís Response: Good questions. Quillen is live against anybody because of his punching power, trainer (Eric Brown), and ambition. I really like Quillen. But I would take GGG to beat him at this point. Things come a little too natural to GGG and I think that would be the difference. But that would be a shootout. Gerald McClellan vs Julian Jackson 1.
I donít know whatís up with the Mayweather announcement. Maybe this is marketing on Team Mayweatherís part. Maybe they are building up the anxiety. Who knows. Just last night there was a tweet that Devon Alexander may be getting the fightÖ. We shall see.
Great fighters who are underrated in certain areas, great question. Floyd Mayweather is underrated as a body puncher and infighter. Floyd is just sick on the inside. But most times he gets described as a defensive wizard with blinding speed.
Ray Leonard is an underrated puncher. In late 78, he started knocking everybody out. And when he first retired he was 7-1 in title fights with 7kos. Ray was a brutal puncher. People usually compliment Ray for his speed and smarts.
Roy Jonesís boxing IQ is constantly overlooked because of his god given talents. But Roy was incredibly smart. You have to be to handle great technical fighters like Bernard Hopkins, James Toney and Mike McCallum.
George Foremanís heart. Foreman is so big and so strong, people donít realize Big George is dead game. Ask Ron Lyle.
Roberto Duranís boxing ability. They say Duran is the best pressure fighter. But man he could box his ass off. Look at his fight with Iran Barkley and Marvin Hagler. He couldnít back those guys up, so he boxed right in front of them, with counter punching and upper body movement.
Pernell Whitakerís body punching was lethal. All we think of him as is a cutie. But watch any of his prime fights and you see him digging to body with both hands, flattening his opponentís tires.
Man I could go on and on. The crazy thing about boxing is an announcer or someone will label a fighter and people will start repeating the assessment without any research. SMH, not I.
Bread I am a numbers guy. A read your stuff and some guys you say are punchers donít have high KO%. How do you justify your ratings?
Breadís Response: SMH as Roger Mayweather says most people donít know s#$% about boxing. If you think KO% is the end all as to who is a puncher or not, then you donít understand boxing.
Of course guys like George Foreman and Mike Tyson are freakish punchers. Of course they have high KO%. But there are other big punchers who donít have glossy KO%. Michael Spinks will knock your head off. See his fight with Marvin Johnson. Spinks didnít have a glossy KO%. Kendall Holt is known in the gyms as a brutal puncher. His KO% is rather low.
So many variables my man. Stamina is a huge factor in scoring knockouts. Can you step on the gas pedal at opportune times. Who you fought and how early you stepped up in competition is another factor. Temperament is another factor. Some guys like to box their way to victories and they donít go for the kill all the time.
Some guys learn how to start scoring kos and others force them. Nonito Donaire has to be one of the top 3 or 4 punchers in the world but he doesnít have a high ko%. Give Nonito the eyeball test, he is cracking.
So you keep believing that KO% means everything. I just hope you donít matchmake or manage any fighters. You will definitely get them knocked out.
How can that guy say that Juan Manuel Marquez is over rated?
Juan Manuel Marquez has been the most consistent fighter Mexico has had in the last 13 years! The Only Losses he has had in the last 6 years, were to the two best fighters in the game Floyd Mayweather and Manny Pacquiao.. Marquez moved up weight and never lost a beat. So how in the world is this Cat calling Juan Manuel Marquez over rated! The dude knocked PACQUIAO the Hell out and has been the best fighter Pacquiao has ever fought!
Yes, Marquez lost to Freddie Norwood, but after he lost to Norwood he won 16 fights in a row, and that earned him a fight against Manny Pacquiao. The first fight against Manny Pacquiao was not a gift Decision! The Man was dropped 3 times in the first round, had a broken nose and boxed Manny to Death for the rest of the fight, it was a draw, but it definitely was not a gift decision fight could have gone either way, depending on how you saw the fight.
Marquez goes to Indonesia and gets robbed against Chris John, blame his management for that. After he loses he reels off a couple of more wins in a row.. He said that Marquez fought an old Barrera?
Dude after Marquez beat Barrera, Pacquiao fought Barrera for the 2nd time! So what the hell is he talking about?
The Turning point in the career of Pacquiao and Marquez was after the 2nd fight.. after the 2nd fight which was super close. Manny moved up in weight.. Marquez did his best to go after Manny again.
Pacquiao fought David Diaz and knocked him out, Marquez went up and fought Joel Casamayor who was champion at 135 and knocked him out (Casamayor had never been knocked out)
After the Diaz fight Manny Landed the De La Hoya fight and Marquez landed Juan Diaz..
At the Time people considered Diaz a dangerous fight for Marquez, because of the age difference, Diaz non top pace and again Marquez was fighting at 135. What does Marquez do? He knocks Diaz out!
Manny destroys De La Hoya, and Marquez is still hunting Pacquiao down trying to get a 3rd fight.. Top Rank doesnít make the fight they feel there are bigger pay days for Manny.
So what does Juan Manuel Marquez do? He goes and fights Floyd Mayweather Jr.
Size, Skill and Speed was the difference in that fight, Mayweather was just better, bigger and faster.
After the Mayweather fight, they pick a much safer fight and they get that rematch with Juan Diaz, and beats Diaz down. He fights his mandatory at 135 which was Michael Kastidis, he stops Kastidis in the 8th round.
Finally, Pacquiao and Top Rank finally make the third fight, everyone in the world (Except the Breadman) says Marquez wonít be able to carry that weight and Manny will destroy him..
What Does Marquez do, he puts together a perfect game plan and makes the fight another close decision. He fights Pacquiao again and has one of the most significant Knockout in the history of Mexican Boxing! and this guy is calling Juan Manuel Marquez over rated?
Heís out of his MIND!
Breadís Response: Marquez is an all time great, top 5 or 6 in Mexico history type of fighter. Manny Pacquiao is just the pinnacle of his career. So some people criticize Marquez. Some may argue that Manny is the only clear victory he has over a HOF. Casamayor is a HOF to me, but some will say he isnít.
In fairness Marquez got a break in the Barerra fight. If you notice Golden Boy did Barerra a solid by giving him the Pacquiao rematch although he lost the fight to Marquez. Check boxrec. Barerra rematched Pacquiao before Pac vs Marquez2.
The reason I believe for that is the blown knockdown call. Barerra knoced Marquez down, the ref was slow to act, Barerra hit him again while his gloves were touching the canvas and Marquez was trying to stand up. The referee deducted a point from BarerraÖ. Thatís a 3 point swing in a round that should have been 10-8 Barerra, it wound up being 10-9 Marquez. In a close fight thatís a killer.
So Barerra was not washed up when he fought Marquez but that call was horrible. I am a fan of both. Iím just telling the truth. In the Chris John fight, there was bad management. You donít take a Mexican to Asia, to fight for 40k. Then make him take a long boat ride to the actual venue. So that sucked for Juan Ma. As for the fight itself, John won a close fight. It wasnít a gift. I saw the fight. Marquez just got outboxed. Believe it or not. Chris John is a great fighter and he had a little more spunk that night. That was a clean 7-5 type of victory.
So people may hate n Marquez and poke holes in his legacy. I donít. I think heís incredible. Everyone has their opinion. I just go by facts. He seems to fight Manny better than he does everyone else and I think thatís where the hate comes in at. But sometimes thatís just the way it is. Look at Shane Mosley. If he fought everybody the way he fought Oscar in their first fight, then he would be on Mt. Rushmore but he doesnít. Heís still a great fighterÖÖ
Marquez is the epitome of a great fighter. He passes high in all categories. Eye Ball test, Accomplishments, who he fought and who he missed. Heís an all time great by every standard. Thanks Jorge.
Does Bryant Jennings deserve a shot at a Klitschko? I think not.
Breadís Response: Jennings has only about 16 fights. So heís not the most accomplished guy but he has done as much as some of the recent title challengers. Derick Chisora was not that accomplished. How about Tony Thompson getting multiple title shots?
I think Jennings is better than both of those guys. So while he may not be the most accomplished challenger he certainly is the most willing American we have. We can all agree that Golden Boy does not think Deontay Wilder is ready. So if Jennings got the title shot, so be it.
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