DAILY BREAD MONDAY EDITION: (9-23-13)
By Stephen "Breadman" Edwards
I hope all is good with you and (the boxer you train) Julian Williams. I didnít watch his last fight (a no contest), but have read what happened. Julian will be champion one day, and that day seems sooner than later. I wanted to get your take on Bernard Hopkinsí statement earlier this week that he would go down to 160 and fight Floyd Mayweather. First thing that came to mind was, how can he come down to that weight at this age. I thought about it again, and said he could, but would be weakened. The way Bernard fights, is more technical rather than exerting energy. Iím not sure what to think of this, but it would be an ďout of the boxĒ opponent who would bring in the PPV numbers. Can you imagine the head games Bernard would pull during the buildup of the fight! Another opponent that would bring the ratings Showtime wants is Sergio Martinez at 155 or another catch weight. To me, thatís easy pickings for Floyd since Martinez is slipping. Martinez would have to come down in weight as well, giving Floyd an even more advantage. Martinez is still THE Middleweight Champion, so beating him would definitely boost his legacy.
On a final note, Iím not sure if you said this before or not, but I am almost certain that we will see a Floyd Mayweather vs. Adrian Broner fight before Floyd retires. Itís all marketing folks. They act as friends/acquaintances now, but watch for them disagree on something or have some sort beef/run-in covered by the media (possibly TMZ) and they will fight one another after Broner has had two or maybe three PPV fights.
Breadís Response: IF Bernard could make the weight safely, stylistically he would be a problem for Floyd. Bernard handles shorter guys well and he has 5 inches on Floyd although their reaches are similar. I always thought that Bernard could handle Floydís insults well in the build up and come right back at him. Floyd hasnít really fought a street guy from the inner city at the top level except Zab Judah. He gets away with saying some crazy stuff and no one calls him on this. I think this would be a huge fight. But Hopkins will probably have to go to a specialist to see if itís possible to make the weight.
Letís remember Bernardís body looked spectacular 7 years ago after moving up 15lbs to fight Antonio Tarver. Now 7 years later he would have to shrink down 15lbs. That in itself would be intriguing as the build up. I am no sports scientist but this would be a serious task. We shall see....
Beating Martinez would be a helluva an accomplishment. I wouldnít be surprised if that fight happened. Yes I agree Broner and Floyd will have a falling out, and this will be an urban classic. Michigan vs Ohio State. New School vs Old School. Pimps, players and hustlers everywhere in Vegas. I can see it!
I honestly believe that the only reason Bernard Hopkins continues to fight is because of what happened in the Jermain Taylor series. Had it not been for what he thinks was a complete robbery (which it wasnít) then I think he would have retired and kept the promise he made to his late mother. He would have beaten ďthe next big thingĒ and would have retired satisfied. Whether or not he lost the first fight with Taylor is debatable. But, as we all witnessed this past Saturday night, new potential ďcash cowsĒ get the benefit of the doubt. It goes without saying that a coup was orchestrated to steal Mayweatherís 0. The thing that most people are missing is how deep this thing really goes. Most casual fans and most serious boxing fans are hung up on C.J. Rossíscorecard. C.J. Ross is what they call a Patsy. Someone who is thrown into the fray to disguise what really happened. The fact of the matter is that all of the scorecards were wrong. They assumed Saul could keep it close and justify the eventual robbery. People are asking for Ross to be investigated. LOL, do you know how silly that sounds? Anybody who doesnít think Golden Boy Promotions schemed this thing together are low functioning individuals. The same low functioning individuals who donít realize that Arum MADE Manny lose to Bradley. This is business people. Simple business.
Though it would seem, by the start of my email, that I wanna rehash the scoring of the fight. . . that is not my real intention. Looking forward, I wanna ask a serious question to you and to Floyd Mayweather is heís reading this. Obviously, making ridiculous money for these next fights are motivation. But, THEY ARE GOING TO TAKE YOUR 0 ONE WAY OR ANOTHER! If he has to shut guys out just to win fights then heíll soon come up short against someone. So why continue? Why allow them to ROB you? Why end up like Bernard. . . .chasing an unquenchable thirst to prove something thatís already been proven? Iím not knocking Bernard cuz heís still doing his thing. Itís not like heís getting humiliated like Roy jones is but thatís not the point. The point is that Bernard probably wouldnít be fighting if things had gone differently against Taylor. If I were Floyd, Iíd give the boxing game ďthe fingerĒ . . . .retire undefeated and see my face on Mount Rushmore.
Breadís Response: The Hopkins/Taylor fights were competitive and left up to debate. Mayweather/Canelo was no where near as close. I have 2 theories that I wonít say publicly because I donít want to incriminate other parties without proof.
I am not saying youíre wrong but Iím not so sure Golden Boy had anything to do with the CJ Ross. Sometimes as you pointed out a ďpatsyĒ is used. Just like Cj Ross can be used as a ďpatsyĒ the culprit behind something can be used a patsy also. Think about that for a second and really use your headÖ..
I believe Floyd has to do really take a stand about what happened. He seems more humble these days and more at peace with himself but he has the power to do something. That is the second fight in a row where he looked to me to have won more rounds than he was given credit for.
Floyd brings in so much revenue to the state of Nevada he has the power to make people lose their jobs by simply refusing to fight again unless better and fair officials are appointed. He has made a stand on PEDs but that stand didnít move me. A stand against what happened to him would truly move the boxing world. I am interested to see how this plays out. CJ Ross stepping down as a judge is simply not enough. The problem is bigger than that.
Hey Bread- I have been watching boxing my whole life- but have never boxed a round in my life. I understand a lot about the sport- but I absolutely LOVE all the small things you point out that guys like me would never know. Do us all a solid and break down what you saw Floyd Mayweather do that negated everything Saul "Canelo" Alvarez tried to do. What in your opinion was Canelo's game plan and how did FLoyd take it away so easily?
I absolutely hate Floyd- but there is no mistaking his talent. He is unbelievable and the ONLY fighter I would give a shot to even challenge him at all would be Manny Pacquiao and that isn't happening (them not fighting 2 or 3 years ago is just a travesty for all boxing fans. That needed to happen). Adrian Broner could potentially, but I don't think that will go down either. Amir Khan will get beat badly and imho KO'd. Who else is there? Tim Bradley? no way- danny? no way. just nothing there left that can even scare him. I hope Manny destroys Rios and fans start clamoring again- but I've accepted the fact it isn't happening. -- Vegan
Breadís Response: Floyd has a defensive intuition that is just phenomenal. He pulls the carpet from under fighters. Meaning a fighterís feet sets into the canvas when they are about to punch. So Floyd took the target away from Canelo lots of times before the punch left the shoot.
Itís almost like you are about to shoot a basketball and as you are about to go through your shooting motion someone moves the rim 12 inches up or down, or left or right. Feel me? Floyd will literally feint or take a quick step back before Canelo punches. When he does that Caneloís brain has to re program and re lock in on a target. Canelo was programmed to punch while he is set. Just like Diego Corrales was taught. Itís correct but it wonít work against on Floyd. You have to be more instinctive.
Floyd is so disciplined and economical after 3 rounds of him giving you nothing it burns most opponents out mentally. So while Floyd is not the most violent fighter physically, he demoralizes you mentally. On top of that Canelo could see that he was in impeccable shape and not going to wear down. All in all after 2 rounds he had NO shot. I hope I helped you out.
Bread. Congrats to you and julian. He boxed beautifully. Was most impressed with his stiff jab and he was slippin punches beautifully and following with a sharp counter right-y'all been workin! Hugo Centeno took the easy route out (saying he could no longer continue and having the fight declared a no contest). What's next for jrock? How many fights before he is ready for the carlos molinas and ishe smiths of the division? Charlo?
Danny garcia did his thing and showed tremendous skill and heart. Danny's character seems off the charts and he would make a great face and mouthpiece for boxing once floyd leaves. Are my eyes wrong? can I walk in and pay a fee to work out in the DSG gym as a 40 yr old recreational boxer that wants to do rounds of jump rope, heavy bag, and speed bag? Where does danny go next? Is is too early for a top 147 contender or money may on cinco de mayweather?
Where does floyd go next? I say maidana if he beats broner or bradley vs marquez winner ( if nacho b would allow jmm to fight floyd)? Do you think floyd should have done more to sell his next fight by throwing more combos and doing more to get canelo outtta there? Sorry for the barrage but you are the man with the best eyes and insight so I need it from the source!
Breadís Response: Thanks. We were ready. Our plan was to take Centenoís best weapon away which was his jab and thatís what we did. Julian outjabbed him easy. I wonít name anyone in specific but J rock will be ready to win and defend a title against anybody in 18 months. Period. We are posting up 154lbs and whoever is around, we can dance with.
Danny does have great character. I really like the kid. He is definitely on his way to being a superstar. I donít know the details of the gym, you would have to go down there and ask for details. You know I donít know who Danny will fight next. That will be interesting because Danny, Floyd and Broner will all be in the same division. There is no way all 3 canít fight each other. And by matching them with the wrong person you can take an opponent away. How about Danny vs Mike Jones in Atlantic City. I hear Danny is moving up to 147.
Floyd wonít fight again until May. Letís see if an opponent creates himself.
Call me crazy but I think now that Floyd Mayweather Sr. is back with Jr. as his chief trainer, we might get to see Floyd vs Manny Pacquiao. Here are my reasons:
1. Sr. prevailed over Jr. to turn down the Pacquiao fight because he (Sr.) thought uncle Roger would have prepared him (Jr.) wrongly for the fight and that he was bound to lose. Now Sr. has the reins back and you can see, this late in his career, Jr. has added some offense and other subtle things to his style.
2. Sr. has a score to settle with Freddie Roach for losing to him with Hatton, but also taking the Trainer of the Year honors for many years in that regard. Sr. was very vocal in the past about Freddie's credentials.
3. The silence from both camps about each other makes me think they might even have a pre-understanding to make the fight happen. Pacquiao and Arum no longer talk about Jr. and Junior's people no longer talk about Pac. I know the dust has settled but it still is odd.
So I say, Pac beats Rios and we have a fight in May or September? Enlighten me.
Breadís Response: Man you remember the things I have said in the past. I definitely believe Floyd Senior was the biggest reason on why the fight didnít happen. Despite the public dismissive behavior he has a lot of respect for Manny Pacquiao. Floyd Sr. is a great trainer and since he has taken back over, his sonís performances have improved. Mayweather was much better against Robert Guerrero and Canelo than he was against Victor Ortiz and Miguel Cotto. I 100% believed he didnít like the Pacquiao fight for his son unless he was in the corner as the head man. We shall seeÖ
Hey whats good bread.1st off I believe 100% hugo centeno quit.J-rock was giving him that work and centeno took the 1st opportunity to run.In saying that whats next for J-Rock? I would love to see him in with eddie gomez.Also a lot of people feel like Lucas Matthysse stock has dropped. I'm 1 of the few who thought he was over rated to begin with.He lost a close competitive fight.Do you think if Lucas were fighting Broner, Adrien would have went in for the stoppage or ko? Now if AB takes care of business how realistic is a match between Broner vs Garcia on the Floyd/khan undercard? Also how do you see that fight playing out? Lasty with all this talk of Cotto going back down to 147, what are the chances he fights the Marquez/Bradley winner? Also how do you think he would do against both fighters?
Breadís Response: Thank you. I wonít use this mailbag to call anybody out but Gomez has been mentioned in the past but the fight never came into fruition. I think Gomez is a talented kid with a good punch and if they called us for him we would set our alarm clocks and put in the work. I will keep you posted on the next opponent. J Rock will fight again before the year is out.
Lucasís stock definitely dropped a little bit but thatís because Golden Boy did a good job of building him up into a monster. He is a monster heís just not Julio Cesar Chavez Sr. or Roberto Duran. Not sure what Broner would have done with Matthysse. Letís see how he handles Maidana.
I donít think we will see Broner vs Garcia next but I do think we see a mixture of Mayweather, Broner and Garcia fighting each other.
If Cotto goes back down to 147, then all of his excuses about the Manny fight goes out the window. Iím not sure that will happen although I always believed he was a too small for super welterweight. I think Cotto will lose to Rodriguez or struggle so much that his stock will drastically drop. Cotto is simply not violent anymore. He canít engage in a consistent basis. Look at him vs Zab Judah then look at him in 2009, 10 and so forth. He doesnít have a zest for punishment anymore. Cotto will need a huge turnaround to be a top fighter again. Remember I said it first Rodriguez gives him some bad business.
What up Dough Man I know you killed em this weekend picking Garcia over Matthysse. On my kids I had Garcia over Mattysse as well but since I didn't call my shot on Btalk then it's not valid. I wasn't real impressed with Matthysses KO of Lamont Peterson, Peterson has a glass jaw and has been dropped before. A shot Judah and a slightly above average Alexander both decision ed Matthysse granted it was close but if he was the boogey-man they say he is then he blows both of those guys away. Garcia and Matthysse are in similar boats even though Garcia won he has limited options unless he win's the Mayweather sweepstakes. Matthysse is still marketable and he and Khan would be a good fight but best his best opponents, the one's who would bring the most money Rios, Alvarado, and Provodnikov are TR fighters and as a result are not options for either of these GBP fighters. Having said that who do you think each will/should fight next. Is there a chance in hell Lundy lands a fight with any of the names I mentioned. If the Lundy I saw in his last fight shows up he could beat Khan, Peterson, and Provodnikov but would get KO'd buy Matthysse, Rios and Alvarado in my opinion what do you think??
Floyd is almost upset proof because he is always in tip top shape and is always the smarter fighter in the ring. I called this fight even before it was made I sent you an email about it but it didn't make the bag. When Donaire was so called upset by Rigondeaux he helped Rigondeaux by being out of shape and taking his opponent lightly. Floyd to this point has never done that so he's not going to help you close the gap on him so the only way you gone beat him is out box him, out think him or catch him with something big. No one on the planet can out box him, there is not a fighter out there smarter than him and his defense is top five all time all adds up to him riding off into the sunlight undefeated and half a billion dollars in the bank courtesy of Showtime PPV. Having said that I'm not sure how great Floyd really is. This era he's in is light on all time great fighters. The only fight that could have showed us what Mayweather is made of hasn't been made yet and even if it is made, at this pont it's not going to tell us much. I'm of the opinion fights with Margarito, Williams, and Cotto in his prime would have done little to move Floyd up the alltime great list. Fights with Freitas, Casamayor, and Tszyu sound good but upon further review Freitas lost to Coralles by KO, Casamayor is about equal to Coralles in talent and resume and Floyd destoyed Coralles, Tszyu is a hall of famer but Judah was holding his own until he got caught Floyd is light years better than Judah what make anyone think Floyd would not wipe the floor with Tszyu, Vince Phillips beat Tszyu in his prime and plus he lost to Ricky Hatton I'm sorry but if you loose to Ricky Hatton no correction if you quit on the stool against Ricky Hatton you loose a lot of cred with me. I'm sure you doint agree please retort. Can't wait to read it...
Loving the fight game and those who put it down for it
Breadís Response: Man the dam line was so long I couldnít get a bet in on Danny. Everybody was taking Canelo. It was nuts the line was all the way into the casino where the slot machines were. I made a couple of street bets but I didnít get a chance to really boogey woogey on good odds. Not sure what happens with Danny next. I hear heís moving up to 147. Maybe Matthysse and Lundy will fight next. Should be a good fight.
Floyd is in a watered down era but thatís not his fault. However it is partially his fault that he has so many misses. See here is the thing about taking excuses away from people who are trying to discredit you. You canít give them a leg to stand on. If Floyd dealt with all of the guys you named in the ring, the only thing a critic could ask him to do, is buy a time machine and go back fight better fighters. He would have wiped out an era. But he didnít.
We can assume what would have happened but assuming and watching it happen are different. I am a Floyd fan and I believe he would have been the favorite in all of those fights. But that doesnít mean he wouldíve won them. Going through all of those tough fighters in their primes would definitely have enhanced Floydís legacy. You named about 8 guys. How can fighting 8 prime fighters in your weight NOT help you out in all time status? I really donít get that logic. Letís remember Lucas Matthysse was the favorite against Danny Garcia, Matthysse wouldnít get a pass from me if he didnít fight Garcia because most assumed he would win. Come on bro, fights are won in the ring.
For the record I am a little tired of everybody talking about Floydís past misses after the Canelo fight trying to make a case for his all time status. Itís nothing we can do about it. We canít dismiss them like they didnít happen and we donít need to dwell on them either. I literally have answered close to 500 questions pertaining to the same thing. I believe his all time status will suffer slightly because of the misses but oh well. Thatís life, there is not much we can do about it now.
There is something on youtube where a black guy is stating that only a black can beat Floyd Mayweather. I am Latino and I donít like that comment. I know you are black and you seem to be fair when it comes to race. Whatís up with the comment and do you believe it to be true?
Breadís Response: Someone mentioned the youtube comment to me but I personally havenít seen it. Let me go a little deeper with a few things before I answer you.
Whenever I bring race up in my mailbag people donít like to touch it. But the promoters know whatís up. I want you to look on boxrec at all of the fights that took place in Vegas on September 12th and September 14th and tell me the nationalities of the fighters. Shawn Porter vs Julio Diaz, Badou Jack vs Marco Periban, Julian Williams vs Hugo Centeno, Erol Spence vs Raul Tavares, Jermall Charlo vs Rogelio De La Torre, Ashely Theopane vs Juan Cano, Ishe Smith vs Carlos Molina, Floyd Mayweather vs Canelo Alvarez. Heck Danny Garcia vs Lucas Matthysse. Danny had the black crowd and Matthysse had the Mexicans.
On this weekend all of the significant match ups had a black fighter vs Mexican fighter. Now the promoter canít come out and say this directly but that was not by coincidence bro. Boxing is a racial then a regional sport and anybody who doesnít think so is sadly mistaken.
Now obviously Floydís toughest fight came against Jose Luis Castillo who is Mexican. But there are no more Castilloís around. I wonít say a specific race will beat Floyd that is foolish but I will say only a certain type of fighter will beat him at this point. It really depends on who he chooses to fight and at what weight. For example if he fought GGG I think he is just too big and too nasty and he is neither black nor Mexican.
Now I do want to point out some things to you. The most effective style of boxing on a whole is the urban boxer puncher. That style gives more fighters fits on a whole than any other. The reason why I picked Danny against Matthysse is because in the urban areas like Michigan, Philly, New York and DC our fighters have a rhythm and technique that offsets lots of things. Itís not just relegated to black fighters itís not a racial thing but it is a regional thing. I am a huge fan of Willie Pep and Tony Canzoneri and they learned to fight in urban areas.
As great as Juan Manuel Marquez is when he boxed against an urban style he was lost. If you donít believe me I will divulge some info. I am friends with a great matchmaker. He has told me that he doesnít match up and coming Mexicans with black fighters on the same level because 7 times out of 10 they will get outboxed.
People whisper things on the low that they wonít say in publicly. Stereotypes in boxing do exist. To be fair I will state the knock on black urban fighters, they run out of gas. I personally believe this to be true in a lot of cases. I think there are two reasons for this. One is they have fast twitch muscles and they are too explosive at times and this burns them out over distance fights. Two is because a lot of them are street kids and they party too much. I am extremely honest. Top Black fighters throughout history with excellent stamina are usually very high on elite list because the stamina combined with their natural abilities are very hard to deal with.
I donít want to offend anybody and get on other races but if you heard what the people who are making matches say off the record you would be surprised.
Let me say a few things about Canelo before I go. I have heard people at Golden Boy express concern about Canelo against the urban style. For this fight he hired sparring partners from St. Louis, Cincinatti and Philly. There was a reason for that.
I think with Caneloís weight issues and his height he will have big problems with tall, fast, strong black fighters. The Charlo Twins, Demeterius Andrade, John Jackson and Julian Williams are all closing in on Canelo. Canelo has slow feet and his rhythm is only good when you are standing still. If you noticed he didnít run off one of his patented combos on Floyd. If you also notice they wanted him to fight James Kirkland and Paul Williams but they werenít particular about him fighting Erislandy Lara. Think , think, think.
The blueprint is out now and they will have to super careful with him. I expect him to fight Angulo and Molina but nobody with good feet. Letís see if Iím right.
Wudup bread n butta. Hope everythings good with you and yours. First and foremost i wanted to apologize on behalf of boxing fans everywhere for what happened to j rock. It wasn't the worst thing I've ever seen but a travesty is a travesty. Boxing is like life man, people with power to make influential decisions just dont seem to gobe a damn how it affects anyone else. But tell julian to keep his head up and stay focused. Now as for what i wanted to email you about...
A few weeks ago you did a mailbag and a reader asked you to rate certain fighters attributes from a scale of one to ten, mayweather being one of them. I was with you or at least close on most of the numbers aside from mayweathers chin which i think you gave 7.5. Then a day before the canelo fight rob soucey posted his prediction that mayweather would get ko'd and that he had a B level chin. And finally in your last mailbag a reader sent you a letter actually saying that my favorite fighter of all time pernell whitaker would ko mayweather.
As far as that last reader i simply couldn't disagree more. If mayweather and whitaker had ever fought in a vacuum the fight could be scheduled for 12, 15, hell 24 rounds and its going to be a close nip and tuck affair that goes the distance period. Who wins is a mute point.
Not familiar with mr. Soucey but i was just a little suprised that you rated floyds chin so low especially in comparison to some of the other fighters you mentioned and i was just curious as to any specific reasons why.
To my eyes mayweather has only been down once. I know technically he was only down in the hernandez fight due to pain from a broken hand but i personally dont count that as far as this topic. but i do count the knock down against zab in the 2nd round which was a blown call. He wasn't hurt but it was a clean knockdown.
In his career i remember him being rocked by my boy chop chop, maybe stunned against zab in the 4th round and he was clearly hurt by shane in the 2nd round im which he was serious trouble for about 20-30 seconds.
I've always felt like guys like a mayweather get accused of a bad chin because his defense is so good. But to me just because you dont take punishment doesn't mean that you can't.
That being said i am in no way sayinf he has the chin of a hagler, or holyfield, or toney. His chin might not be amongst the greatest but in my opinion is far from mediocre or average.
So talk to me homie. What is it that you've seen that gives him a 7.5 beard? To me he and hearns and pac should at least be even but you had them rated higher. Not questioning you or your eyes, but let me know what im not seeing. And if mayweather may have fought amd beaten certain fighters would your opinion have changed? Thanks for the read.
Your boy marquis from the one n only southeast dc
Breadís Response: What up Marquis? I remember the ratings question and I didnít rate Hearnsís chin over Floydís. And if I did that was a mistake, I remember Hearns being a 7. I do remember rating Floydís chin a 7.5 but thatís not a low score. Itís just not a 10. Iím saying he has a chin that is better than 75% of the other fighters on his level. Whatís wrong with that?
I personally think floydís chin is solid. But I think his defense is better. If the punch stats are true that claim Floyd gets hit less than any other fighter as far as connect % then I think Iím rating his chin fairly. Just because a guy hasnít been stopped that doesnít mean he has a granite chin. Seth Mitchelll just recently got stopped last year but I donít think his chin just became bad when he fought Jonathan Banks.
On the few occasions I have seen Floyd hit clean with hurtful shots he has shown some visible affect. Thatís not knocking him he responds very well. But when I was asked the question I took lots of things into consideration. I took how cleanly a guy gets hit. I took how often a guy gets hit. I took how they respond. Floyd doesnít get hit clean very often with hurtful punches. It rarely happens. But the times it has happened he has been buzzed or wobbled. So I imagine what would happen if he were ever in a fight where he was being constantly touched.
Although Pacquiao has been stopped before I rate his chin higher because he gets hit so much cleaner. He also gets hit way more often and he has rarely showed effect. Besides that last Marquez fight we havenít seen him hurt in over 10 years. So there are lots of things to take into consideration. That was no knock on Floyd but certain things tell me he has good solid chin but not a titanic chin.
See when you study fighters like I study them you notice different things. The majority of fighters who have titanic chins or fighters who punches donít really bother them are more killer types. Even the boxer punchers become killers. Floyd for as great as he is, is constantly outclassing fighters and beating them up for 8, 9 and 10 rounds at a time. But he rarely scores a knockdown or knockout. Think about that for a second. Again no knock on him heís one of the best fighters I have seen. But the list had guys with titanic chins on there and to me Floydís chin is solid but not titanic.
Hello Breadman, let me just start by saying that I highly value your views on the sport of boxing, you are a genius when it comes to analyzing fighters. I read your columns on Boxing Talk over and over to make sure I didn't miss anything....Your're tha' man..!!!
I've been watching boxing religiously non-stop since I was 12 years old (I'm 44 now) and this is my view on Floyd Mayweather, I just want to know your thoughts on this, if it's possible.
From 1982-1992 if Floyd Mayweather would have been in his prime, this is what he would have had to face, all in their very prime. (From 135 to 154)
JULIO CESAR CHAVEZ
SUGAR RAY LEONARD
No doubt in my mind that if he would have fought all of these fighters during their peak primes, Mayweather would have had no less than 10 losses on his record, and i'm being generous....it could be EASILY 12 or 13 maybe...No one is gonna ever convince me that he ranks in the top 25 P4P in history....No Way.
Most experts saw him lose to Castillo during their first fight.
Beats up a smaller Marquez, Hatton and Guerrero, and OLD or past it's prime De La Hoya, Cotto and Mosley....
Gatti was there to get beat down over and over, no defense, limited skills, no competition there.
Ortiz was a damn Joke, never deserved that fight, he never accomplished anything spectacular to deserve a shot at Mayweather, has no heart and limited skills.
We then wonder how would had he done vs a prime Pacquiao in 2009 or a prime Paul Williams or a primed Margarito, we'll never find out....so, we'll leave those out.
Mayweather is great, yes he is, great against what's available for him to fight but there are many questions about his greatness that we would never know...When he retires for good, we'll discuss his legacy.
Thanks so much for your time.
A true fan of yours and the sport of boxing.
Breadís Response: In fairness to Floyd heís not old enough to have fought during that time. You can only fight the guys from your era. Floyd has some misses but thatís not fair what you did.
Nobody except for maybe Ray Robinson would get through the names you named without multiple losses. When it comes to Floyd people seem to be on both ends of the spectrum. Either they think heís overrated or they think heís the best ever. I think heís in the top 25 to 50 fighters ever, which is extremely high for me. Heís a special fighter , letís just appreciate him and see what he does from here on out.
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