DAILY BREAD FRIDAY EDITION: (4-11-14)
By Stephen "Breadman" Edwards
Why are people making such a big deal about Pacquiao not scoring a brutal knockout since the Cotto fight? Since he moved up to 135 and 147, who has he really brutally knocked out besides Hatton? He beat up De La Hoya and made him quit but he didn't knock him out cold. He beat up Cotto and the ref stopped the fight but he couldn't brutally knock him out. Who did he fight since then? Clottey? The guy who covered up with the ear muff defense and came to collect a paycheck and never came to win? Margarito? The guy that who was 20lbs heavier than him and came to die that night and gave up his career just to say he made it 12 rounds? Shane Mosley? Another guy who started running after a blister on his foot and who asked Nazeem Richardson to stop the fight but wouldn't? Marquez ? The guy who had Pacquiao figured out? Bradley? The guy with an iron chin and iron will who has a marvin hagler type of hard head ? Brandon Rios? The guy who is hard to knockout and loves pain? I am tired of people holding Pacquiao to a higher standard and saying he's lost his passion just because he hasn't had a brutal knockout since Hatton. Pacquiao gets a free pass because when you look at these things closely, some of these guys never came to win while others were tough as they come. People want to create smoke and mirrors. Let's stop with the bs that Pacquiao is past it. Stop it. Barrera and Foreman had two careers. Did anybody call them washed up when they changed their styles to a more career prolonging style ? I fully expect Pacquiao to fight a stick and move type of fight against Bradley and Saturday. Firing combos and moving out of the way. Bradley is only saying that Pacquiao has lost his killer instinct because he wants Pacquiao to fight recklessly and wants Pacquiao to make a mistake. Sorry Bradley but you are going to fight the way Pacquiao wants you to fight, not the way you want him to fight.
Mark my prediction though. This fight will end in a controversy. It will be a headbutt, a draw, or some type of injury.
Bread’s Response: You make a great point. I have stated this before. I will add to it. When Manny first moved up to lightweight and knocked David Diaz, then Oscar De La Hoya, then Ricky Hatton then Miguel Cotto, people who wanted to discredit him took that 4 fight microcosm and said he has a 100% ko ratio after moving up he must be juicing.
Now those same people say two things. One is he must NOT be juicing anymore because he hasn’t scored a ko since 2009, or two he’s past it.
I always said back then that eventually he would start going the distance he was just in a zone at the time. But you got specific with it and I love that. The first guy to take Pacquiao the distance during his hot streak was Joshua Clottey. Clottey has never been stopped, he’s as strong an ox, he’s huge and he doesn’t open up much. Nobody is stopping Joshua Clottey if he doesn’t want to be stopped. Pac beat Clottey into oblivion and threw over 1200 punches at him.
Margarito has the hardest head of them all and in my opinion he was only stopped once legitimately and that was by Shane Mosley. Margarito has one of the best chins I have ever seen and he literally came to die and Pacman almost killed him. There is no shame in not stopping Margarito.
Next up is Mosley. Another guy who has never been stopped. Mosley is known for his speed and power but he has one of the most underrated chins in history. Manolo dropped him hard and beat the fight out of him. Manny caused both Mosley and Clottey to go into survival mode once he put it on them. To me that is almost as good as a stoppage especially when you are the smaller man.
Marquez was next and Marquez not only has Manny’s number but he doesn’t get stopped either. In fact Manny is the only fighter in his 60 fight career that has come close to stopping him.
Bradley and Rios are the other guys in the mix. Both of those guys have never been stopped in close to 70 fights combined.
So during Pacquiao’s cold streak he has faced opponents with over 300 combined fights and those opponents had been stopped a combined one time. I have never heard one media member, writer or expert point this out.
Personally I don’t have a problem with Manny not knocking out any of these guys although I think he should have stopped Rios and Mosley. My problem is he didn’t turn on the burners in an attempt to get them out of there. There is a difference in my perception and the perception of the norm.
What up Bread, just wanted to get your thoughts on the double header last Friday. What did you make of the Stevens vs Johnson stoppage? I feel that the ref stopped the fight prematurely, given how the fight was going. It wasn't like Johnson was getting pulverized the whole fight and was about to lose anyway; Johnson was clearly winning nearly every round and despite taking several BIG shots throughout the fight, he wasn't clearly hurt until that exchange in the last round. I think the ref should have given Johnson a few more seconds to see if he could properly defend himself or even take a knee. Also do you think that Johnson did himself an injustice by keeping the pressure on in the 12th round, instead of easing up being more cautious knowing that Stevens would surely try to go-for-broke? One thing is for sure; from now on Curtis Stevens is going to have to earn every win from now on because everyone he fights is going to employ that same pressure type fight that Johnson had so much success with.
As for Mansour vs. Cunningham; I think that Amir could have beaten Cunningham if he would have not fought like a caveman. He throws every punch with 100% power which gets him fatigued quickly. I am actually disappointed in his boxing IQ, which I thought was much higher given how he presents himself in interviews. I thought he was smarter than how he fought. Common sense would tell you "hey, let me stop loading up on all of my shots and be patient, keep using my jab to set up shots, mix up the power maybe throwing some shots at 40% or 50% to conserve energy, then going 100% if I see an opening." I just didn't get why his corner didn't convey that to him, which now has me thinking that his trainer/cornerman is suspect. And maybe I was heard this wrong but I thought I heard one of the commentators say that Amir had a THREE week training camp. THREE WEEKS??? Is he serious? I know you and J Rock train for more than three weeks, I mean come on!! Thoughts? All props to Cunningham for fighting through those knockdowns and doing what he needed to do to pull out the win. He has all the heart in the world, which I think was heavily fueled by his daughter sitting in the crowd. A true inspiring win for Cunningham!!
Last Question: I was watching an interview with Floyd Sr. and Shane Mosely. The interviewer asked, "what do you guys think make a great trainer?" Shane said that to be a great trainer you have to have been a fighter before, because you cant tell a boxer how and where to throw a punch or how to dodge one if you haven't been in there to see what getting punched feels like. I think I remember you stating that you use to box in the amateurs (if im not mistaken). My question is: Is a trainer's past boxing background a prerequisite for success as a trainer? Can a person who has never boxed (at all, not just as a pro) become a world class trainer?
Sorry for the long email...Lol
Q from Memphis, TN
Bread’s Response: I thought Stevens vs Johnson was an excellent tv fight. I believe judging by the climate of the fight, Johnson should have been allowed to fight a little longer. Stevens was missing his volley as he pushed Johnson to the ropes. I think the referee should have waited for something a little more conclusive to happen. I feel really bad for Stevens considering how long he had been off, taking the fight on short notice then losing on a questionable call, in a fight he was winning. That’s a tough break brother.
First off I want to give a salute to both Steve Cunningham and Amir Mansour that was one heck of a fight. After such a great fight you hate to be critical but I have to be honest. I was very shocked that Mansour fought such a flawed technical fight. Not only did he load up on every punch but he didn’t choose to work his way into Steve who has extremely long arms. Mansour just lunged in with power punch after punch from way too far away. He never once made an adjustment to Steve’s length. He basically gave Steve a defense to the majority of his offense.
All Steve did was take step out of range most of the time and Mansour would miss badly. Had Mansour stepped into Steve and waited to punch until he moved Steve to the ropes or in the corner he would have knocked Steve out. In the fight before that you can tell someone taught Tureano Johnson how to effectively pressure a guy. Did you notice how often he put Curtis Stevens in the corner or up against the ropes? That’s how you pressure a fighter. Hopefully Mansour learns from his mistakes. He’s an exciting fighter with a great story.
I was a gym rat that boxed loads of rounds in the Philly gyms for about 5 years and it gave me the insight I needed to train. I don’t think there is a real prerequisite for being a trainer accept a passion and knowledge for boxing. Shane Mosley should know that. I definitely think it helps to have stepped in a boxing ring and been punched in the face but it’s not a prerequisite. Some of the best trainers ever weren’t “established” boxers. When you start saying trainers should have been boxers then you put a parameter on how good or successful they need to be to train. Shane trains his son but I see he took him to Roger Mayweather to work out. Well Shane was a better fighter than Roger…. You limit your horizons when you get into that stuff.
Shane’s dad and Naazim Richardson both did good jobs with Shane. I don’t know about their boxing backgrounds but I know they weren’t established professionals. Nacho Beristain may be the best trainer in the game and from his mouth he was never a fighter. How about Ray Arcel? Enzo Calzaghe is the most recent case. Virgil Hunter has a boxing background but he wasn’t an “established” fighter. I can really go on and on.
So to be direct I believe you need a background in boxing. But youdon’t have to be a “boxer” to be a great trainer. What you have to be is a great teacher?
I’m in a gym with some established ex fighters. And I will tell you first hand they couldn’t train my dog to take a poop but yet they have professional boxing backgrounds. Doing something and teaching someone to do something are different.
There are some things that I have to get off of my chest regarding boxing and your insight is the best on the web right now. Keep up the good work on the mailbags and I think Julian is gonna have a breakout year and get his title shot. Dude sets up his punches really well and the punch that ended the fight was set up beautifully…..
1.I don’t know about the rest of the boxing world but I am excited about Pacquiao/Bradley 2. There has been a lot of questions regarding whether Pacquiao can regain the “eye of the tiger” and this fight will answer those questions regarding that. I feel that in order for Pacquiao to win this fight he can’t be “I’m too nice to my opponents” Pacquiao. I’m glad that you touched on that on your last mailbag and I feel the same way. Boxing is the hurt business and while you don’t want to kill your opponent you are not there to play patty cake with them either. If you don’t have the DESIRE to KNOCK YOUR OPPONENT OUT in every fight regardless of whether it happens then you are in the wrong profession. Contrary to some belief I think that Bradley is gonna try to bring the fight to Pacquiao to prove that he is the superior fighter at this point in their careers. Bradley really believes deep down that he is better than Pacquiao right now and no longer has “IT”. You can see it in Bradley’s eyes and demeanor. While Pacquiao is a more dynamic puncher than Marquez and Ruslan…I don’t know if he hits harder than Ruslan at this point of his career. I’m going to be bold and say that this fight is not gonna go the distance and someone is going to get knocked out. My heart says Pacquiao finds a way to dig DEEP one more time but my mind….
2 I don’t know where Pacquiao goes from this fight if he wins. I don’t want to see him fight a meaningless fight again with Marquez. ( The fourth fight to me should have never occurred in my opinion.) I don’t want to see the Mayweather fight. ( We all know when that fight should have occurred) There really isn’t any meaningful fights for him at welterweight. The only thing I could see is if he drops down to junior welterweight to fight someone like Danny Garcia or somebody but even then I don’t see him doing that at all. Danny would probably have to come up in weight but then you have the Golden boy/Top Rank cold war. I remember in a mailbag a while back before the Marquez knockout and he was on his winning streak how you mentioned that Bob Arum was going to get him beat. I think that if he wins this fight he will become like a stepping stone for up and coming fighters. There are some talks that he will either fight the Alvarado/Marquez winner or Ruslan. That Ruslan fight would be really bad for him at this point of his career. I really hope he retires after this fight because he has nothing left to prove.
3. I think the word “exposed” is being overused in boxing right now. EVERYTIME a boxer loses a fight they are always being “exposed” lol.
4. “Robbery” is another word that is being used too often when it was actually a really close fight. Richard Abril vs. Brandon Rios was a robbery. Pacquiao/Marquez 3 was just a close fight.
5, It really bugs me when I read comments, blogs, hear commentators, or hear current/former boxers criticize other professional fighters without doing their research first or at least backing it up with SOLID facts. One of the reasons why I really like reading your mailbag is that you always back up everything with facts. I personally think that Manny Pacquiao has to be one of the most criticized boxers of the modern era. A favorite line that his “haters” like to say is that he fought a “weight drained” De la hoya…Manny jumped 2 weight divisions to fight De la hoya. So under their logic, he doesn’t get full credit unless he jumps THREE divisions?? On top of that, De la hoya SIGNED THE CONTRACT. He was the “A” side at that time not Manny. When was the last time anyone has ever jumped that many divisions in a world title fight? Paulie called him an “average” fighter and while I respect Paulie as a commentator….ARE YOU SERIOUS lol? It seems like some people tend to let their personal like/dislike for someone affect their bias for or against that particular person. Everyone has a right to an opinion but at least allow your opinion to be respected with TRUTHFUL facts/research.
6. Are you gonna do a video and/or a written breakdown of Pacquiao/Bradley?
Keep up the great work as always man!
Bread’s Response: I’m not sure if I will do a video mailbag but my official prediction is Manny Pacquiao will win. I just think he will find a way. I think it will be razor close and Bradley’s jab will carry the fight but Pacquiao will be sharper and he will force Bradley into enough exchanges to squeak by. This may be a Barerra vs Morales type of scenario where the majority of people believe the wrong guy one each of their fights.
Here are my technical keys. Bradley is practicing a slide cross. The same shot that Manny throws from the left handed stance. If he lands this shot while Manny is coming in he could score a flash knockdown. I also think Bradley will use his jab overtime. He jabbed Pac really well in the last 3 rounds of the first fight. The more I think about his jab as I type the more I lean towards Bradley.
Pacquiao’s keys will be to be sharper and more consistent than he was in the last fight. I believe he will but I’m worried that Freddie and Manny will overlook Tim’s jab. I look for Manny to start blistering early and for Tim to remain consistent over the second half of the fight. I’m leaning towards Manny honestly because of karma. I believe he won the first fight and I believe Bradley should have admitted it... Weird reasoning huh? Lol
I answered your other questions in other comments. But I will answer #5. Pacquiao is the most criticized fighter of this generation by far. It’s almost as if people are mad he won fights they didn’t think he could win. When he was terrorizing featherweight, no one had a problem with him.... HMMmmmmm makes you think.
Only an idiot would have a problem with the Oscar De La Hoya fight. Oscar was never called a bully for fighting guy who had just moved to lightweight. Oscar was a freaking junior middleweight. They met at 147 and people blamed Manny for draining Oscar. Oscar was a bigger star and he was A side…..How stupid is that? Manny weight 142lbs for that fight. How in the heck could he have fought Oscar at 154?
Contrary to beliefs, opinions can be wrong. If your opinion is so far from the truth that it exudes delusion then it is wrong. Manny Pacquiao is not an average fighter.
AGREE totally where it comes to Floyd Sr. openly disrespecting another trainer rather than talking to him face to face and letting both men’s disagreements and philosophies air, we’re ALL men now and should speak up for what we believe. I think that type of talk diminishes Floyd, Roger and Jeff Mayweather as successful Coaches. Mike and his team know what they have to do to get Adrien back on track hopefully Adrien will listen and improve.
Same with Virgil and Freddie, both men are well beyond their own fighting ages and have chosen to teach young men the noble art of boxing. They can let their charges success or failure speak for their own expertise or lack thereof as Coaches.
Yes, Kovalev does reset constantly during a fight, soft resets and hard resets. I noticed a couple of hard resets against Agnew as you did because of that sneaky right hook. I think he learned a lot from that fight also.
Bread’s Response: The brilliant mind of Rob Jackson…….
Hello Breadman, many blessings to you and your family.
Here is one for the History Books......The Ali of 1964-1965 vs. the Tyson of 1987-1988.
I strongly disagree with the outcome displayed on this picture, but that's just my opinion.
Just wanted to share this with you, I have enormous respect for your boxing knowledge.......
I have to say, good thing Pacquiao and Mayweather didn't have to fight Ray Leonard, Duran, Hearns and Hagler, somewhere between 1979 and 1987, they each would have had 4 loses on their record, no doubt on my mind.
Bread’s Response: the picture is not shown here but it is a picture of Ali over top of Tyson as Tyson lays on the canvas. Well buddy I respect your opinion but you are wrong. Mike Tyson could not have beaten a prime Ali.
Ali has too much character for the great Mike Tyson. And this is not me talking. Tyson broke down in tears in an interview last year when a young reporter who didn’t seem to know much suggested that he could beat Ali. This wasn’t Tyson being humble and deferring, this was Tyson being honest and bowing down. Tyson broke down in tears and said I can’t beat that man. He told the interviewer that Ali had too much character to be beaten at his best. Lastly Tyson said that some fighters claim they want to die, but Ali was one of the few that really went to death’s door step time and time again. Lastly he said Ali could fool you because of how he looked. He claimed that Ali had model looks, but on the inside he was really a Tyrannosaurus Rex. Something that this world hasn’t seen in a long time.
So no disrespect to you but Mike Tyson can not beat Muhammad Ali and Mike Tyson will tell you that.
Bread with what some are calling a premature stoppage in the Stevens vs Johnson fight, do you think the standing 8 count would stop some of these? It would give the referee another option, and more time to evaluate how hurt a boxer is.
Bread’s Response: There is no need for a standing 8 count in professional boxing. Think about it for a second. If a man is in so much trouble where the referee needs to give him a break then he shouldn’t be allowed to continue. Technically that’s a knockout.
Also you would have to factor in the negative feedback. Imagine an A side star like Mayweather or Canelo gets buzzed and their opponent goes in for the kill and referee gives them a standing 8 count, to allow them to get themselves back together. No standing 8 count in professional boxing. Better referees are what we need.
What's up bread, hope this helps prove your point that manny is slowing down. I'm with you on Manny Pacquiao slipping and not being the Manny of old..
So I went back to copubox from the David Diaz fight up until his last fight with Bradley..
Vs Diaz 230/788 punches, manny averaged 87 punches per round.
Vs De La Hoya 224/585 punches 73 punches a round. However from rounds 4-8 manny threw 414 of his 585!!
Vs Cotto 336/780 punches 70 punches a round. From rounds 2-9 manny threw 603 if his 780 punches, that's some shit!
Vs Clottey 246/1231 famous bang bang, bang! Lol
Vs Margarito 474/1089 and manny carried him the last 3 rounds..
Vs Mosley 224/727, 60 punches per round
Vs Marquez 3 176/578, 48 punches per round
Vs Bradley 253/751,62 punches per round
Vs Rios 281/790, 65 punches per round
So the proof is in the pudding after the Margarito fight.. Manny punch output is not nearly the same, and it's more visible now, especially after the Rios fight! He should have stopped rios, rios was willing and ready to get hit with everything and the kitchen sink but manny couldn't deliver. The only thing that manny has going into this fight is that Bradley doesn't hit hard enough to put him to sleep so he is able to take more risk and be aggressive. I'm rooting for manny In this fight I hope he pulls it off, but it sure ain't going to be easy.
Jorge from LA
Bread’s Response: Great comment. I’m a not a big stat guy in boxing but I like your comment, it has credence. People say Pac has lost his power but I’m not so sure that he has. As you get older you lose your lung capacity and ability to exert higher amounts of energy.
That is the reason why high energy fighters fall off so fast. So because of this Pac has to modify his style somewhat and take something off of his punches AND not throw as many. He doesn’t have that extra push anymore. Remember in 2003 when he had Barerra ready to go. He stepped on it like an SOB and took him out of his misery. That is what he is missing. The desire to finish and the energy level to compensate his desire. Great point
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