DAILY BREAD SUNDAY EDITION:(8-3-14)
By Stephen "Breadman" Edwards
Bread: With Gennady "GGG" Golovkin tearing up the middleweight scene nowadays and though it may be a bit soon, I feel compelled to ask how you would see him performing against some of the best middleweights of all time such as Ray Robinson, Carlos Monzon, Marvin Hagler, Bernard Hopkins and Stanley Ketchel? With the frequency he's fighting at, GGG would break Hopkins record of 20 defenses if he were to stay at middleweight for three more years (there may be bigger fish to fry at 168 though).
Regarding the junior middles: Though Demetrius Andrade hasn't faced the best competition, I'm surprised his name has not come up in your mailbag recently. Despite his tough early going against Vanes Martirosyan, he bounced back well and performed even better against Brian Rose. His skills, talent, physical dimensions and the fact that he carries a belt means he has something to say about who's the best fighter in his division. Your guy, J-Rock [Julian Williams, whom, Bread trains] is in the same division, so I know you're up on him. What are your thoughts on Boo-Boo Andrade? Simba - Wash, DC.
Breadís Response: I donít want to compare GGG to the all-time great middleweights yet. I love everything about the guy but sometimes we go overboard and overrate. Remember how Lucas Matthysse was viewed before Danny Garcia beat him and then struggled with John Molina? The media spin tried to make us forget about Mathysse's close losses to Zab Judah and Devon Alexander. So while I think GGG is a great fighter in the making, I wonít compare him to those kinds of guys yet.
I will compare to some of the best middleweights since 1990. Nigel Benn, Michael Nunn, Gerald McClellan, James Toney, Roy Jones, Bernard Hopkins, Jermaine Taylor, Kelly Pavlik, Arthor Abraham and Sergio Martinez are the stand outs since then. I think GGG matches up favorably and would hold his own but I donít see him running through that crew without taking more than 1 loss. So we donít need to go all the way back to Robinson and the boys.
Demetrius Andrade is an excellent young talent. Heís going to be difficult for anybody because of his volume and length. I can see heís huge for 154 but I donít think he will move up anytime soon. When monsters like GGG are in the division above you, you donít see guys jumping up in weight. If Andrade were to move to 160, HBO would probably force their hand with a GGG fight. I hear Andrade talking a lot but in interviews I never hear him say anything enticing about GGG.
To keep it real only Andre Ward and Vanes Martirosyan have openly said they want to ďscratchĒ with the Good Boy.
The other night I watched Ray Leonard vs. Marvin Hagler on YouTube (for like the 5th time) and it seems like every time I watch that fight in its entirety, I find a deeper more nuanced level to appreciate it from. There is so much happening in that fight, both in the ring and out of it, that it's hard to grasp it all in just one viewing. Question for you: What do you think would have happened had Hagler decided to keep fighting after Leonard decisioned him? How much did Hagler have left, what were his options and how would he have done? Re-watching that fight this time I was struck with how spent Hagler seemed at times, how discombobulated and even flailing he was. So many of Hagler's punches were slow, winging shots that missed badly and caused him to stumble. Was Hagler close enough to the finish line that walking away from the sport really wasn't that difficult a choice for him? Curious your thoughts. ĖJS
Breadís Response: Marvin Hagler retired when he was 32 about to turn 33 years old. I always believed he was a little bit older than that but letís just assume that was his listed age. He wasnít super old chronologically but he had 67 fights under his belt. 67 fights in 14 years. In contrast, Floyd Mayweather has 46 fights and heís been a pro for 18 years. If you look deeper at Haglerís record he had 54 fights crammed into 7 years from 1973-80 and then he won his title.
Think about that for a second. Hagler was rumbling, my friend. Everybody has enough at some point. I think he could have kept fighting and done well but by that time he had slowed down slightly. Michael Nunn was emerging and that would have been a tough fight for the 1987 version of Marvin. Also you have to realize that Hagler made a boatload of money to fight Ray Leonard. He made $13 million to Leonardís 11, plus he was able to collect a piece of the action on 48 states of the closed circuit, while Leonard collected on DC and Maryland. After everything was counted up, I have heard some huge numbers as to what Hagler cleared.
Last but not least, he lost to Leonard. I was just talking about this the other day with a friend about why certain fighters identify with others. Guys like Joe Frazier and Larry Holmes always seemed at least slightly bitter towards Muhammad Ali. Fernando Vargas was always a little bitter towards Oscar De La Hoya. And Hagler just couldnít swallow losing to Ray Leonard. That fight was for the fighter of the decade and he lost and it just burns his soul. Some boxers fight on because of pride but I think Hagler was just the opposite. He had the huge payday, he knew he was getting a little older and he knew he could hold onto the ďI was robbedĒ story. If you donít believe how bitter Hagler was to Ray, listen to the broadcast of Leonard- Thomas Hearns II. As Ray is coming on and hurting Tommy, Hagler is actually telling Tommy to hold on. Talk about a biased commentator, lol.
I just wanted to get your thoughts on Demetrius "Boo Boo" Andrade calling for a fight with Floyd Mayweather and Canelo Alvarez. I think he is a great talent who needs to build up his resume a bit so who do you think he should face next if he wants to build up his credentials? I would say an Austin Trout or perhaps the Carlos Molina-Corneliu "K9" Bundrage winner. What do you think?--William in West Palm
Breadís Response: I would like to see Andrade fight one of the Charlo twins. Thatís a legitimate good title defense. Those kids are getting plenty of ink, their marketable and people would pay attention to the fight. Andrade can scream all he wants he wonít be getting a Mayweather or Canelo shot anytime soon.
Speaking of Gennady "GGG" Golvkin moving up from 160 to 168 pounds, I've heard you mention often that from 160-168 is the hardest move up in boxing. So, in the last 30 years or so, who has made that leap successfully? I came up with Roy Jones Jr., James Toney, and to a much lesser extent, Arthur Abraham and Nigel Benn. I'm sure I'm missing a bunch though. Who would you favor in the following match-ups featuring GGG:
GGG-Peter "Kid Chocolate" Quillin
Also, how about featherweight Vasyl Lomachencko against the current best at featherweight? How would he fare against Nicholas Walters, Abner Mares, Nonito Donaire or Jhonny Gonzalez? --Best, GC
Breadís Response: You got it Jones, Toney and Abraham and Benn to a lesser extent were guys who made the jump from 160-168. I favor GGG to stop everybody on the list except Ward. I think Ward beats him.
[Editor's note: Iran Barlkey deserves a shout out here. The former middleweight champion moved up to 168 and captured the IBF title in 1992 and then beat Thomas Hearns two months later for a light heavyweight championship]
I like Lomanchenko to beat all of the guys you named. Heís going to take off after that Gary Russell fight.
Who do you think is the better the trainer Freddie Roach or Floyd Mayweather Sr? Also if you could pick a fabulous four trainers in boxing who would they be?
Breadís Response: I canít say who is the best between Roach and Mayweather. Itís really that close to me. When I see the job Roach has done with a guy like Zou Shiming who I honestly was not impressed with me, it really makes me appreciate his work. Then when I look back at how good a guy like Chad Dawson was with Mayweather Sr. I do the same thing. Some would say it depends on the styleÖ.but I think both guys could train just about any top style. Could you imagine if Mayweather got a hold of GGG. My goodness. And same thing with Roach.
My top 4 trainers are Roach, Mayweather, Nacho Beristain and Virgil Hunter. Those are the 4 guys I am most confident with in a big fight to get the most out of the fighter they are in the dance with. Condition, strategy and mind frame.
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